Andy: You’ve got both the technical and people skills that make you well-suited to build such a platform. So, you started in 2019. I’ve noticed that many entrepreneurs with agencies identify gaps in the market and then create solutions that address their own problems. They often have an initial customer base because they know the market well.

Daniel Miller: Exactly. Our journey was very organic. Initially, the platform was developed for our own agency. When it proved successful, our venture capital and private equity clients encouraged us to patent it and take it to the broader market. So, in 2019, we revamped the platform to make it suitable for other channels and began offering it more widely. Andy: Out so you're right on. I guess, what are the keys to a successful recruiting program, since you've been around the block a few times here?

Daniel Miller: It depends on the company and whether you're doing internal hiring or external hiring as an agency. But fundamentally, it boils down to three key elements: technology, process, and people. I know it sounds cliché, but the reality is many companies fail to invest in the right technologies, making recruiters' jobs incredibly challenging. They also often neglect to build strong processes, which can negatively impact the candidate experience and harm the brand. Additionally, hiring the right people who know how to recruit effectively is crucial. If you don't hire strong recruiters, they won't be able to present your company or clients well. So, tech, process, and people can determine whether your recruiting program is a C or an A.

Andy: That's a good point because a lot of times, you can look at a resume, but that doesn’t really tell the whole story. A good recruiter understands the company culture and the personality fit, not just the credentials. Instead of just focusing on names and qualifications, it's about understanding how well candidates will fit within the company culture.

Daniel Miller: Exactly. Back in the day, anyone could be a recruiter; you’d just hire a bunch of people and see what happened. But today, understanding the soft skills and getting a feel for whether a candidate will be a good fit is crucial. We’re like matchmakers. If you’ve ever set up friends on dates, you know there’s a lot of personality dynamics that are hard to describe in words. A strong recruiter can make that perfect match.

Andy: Definitely. You want good recommendations after making a match. You don’t want to pair up the wrong people and have them both unhappy.

Daniel Miller: Exactly.

Andy: So, what other recruitment trends should companies be aware of in 2024? Obviously, technology and AI are going to play a significant role this year.

Daniel Miller: Yes, technology and AI are crucial, but companies should also be mindful of compliance. Many people are overlooking adherence to new HR laws, such as those in New York regarding AI use. If your tools aren’t audited for compliance, you could face issues. There are concerns with mass emails and texting as well. This year, it's essential for recruiters to ensure they’re compliant to avoid potential lawsuits. For instance, if someone finds great candidates and starts cold emailing them, that needs to follow CAN-SPAM rules. If you don’t have proper opt-outs, you could run into problems. With changes in regulations from Google and Yahoo, and issues with voice over IP, compliance is becoming increasingly important. So, even though there are many cool tools, addressing compliance issues will be critical.

Andy: That’s a good point. With AI accelerating rapidly, many great tools are emerging, but if everyone uses them, the regulations become stricter. Google, for example, is cracking down on cold email marketing. It’s a rude awakening for many, but the benefit is that there are now excellent tools that make compliance easier.

Daniel Miller: Absolutely. There’s a recruitment trend where recruiters feel they need all the right tech to do their jobs effectively. This tech obsession means that if recruiters don’t have the right tech stack, they might feel unable to produce results. However, it’s important to remember that sometimes you need to go back to basics. Technology is only as good as how it’s applied.

Andy: Definitely.

Daniel Miller: So, let me explain how our platform works. Our goal is to create a collaborative environment where project management is essential. Recruiters often experience burnout from managing multiple tasks, so our platform provides a comprehensive view of everything across a large team. It’s designed for larger hiring teams and allows for transparency from managers down to metrics and KPIs. Once you start seeing your numbers automatically generated, you’ll start performing better. For instance, if you only need seven interviews to make a hire this week, the data helps you track and improve your performance.

Daniel Miller: Our platform supports a full desk experience, from AI and automation to campaigning, drip campaigns, compliance, and background checks. We’ve built an ecosystem that integrates these functions into one cohesive design.

Andy: How do you see AI and automation playing into the recruiting process this year, and how does it fit into your platform?

Daniel Miller: AI and automation are crucial because they reduce hours spent on tasks. The first area where we see significant benefits is sourcing. AI can sift through millions of candidates in your database, narrowing them down based on job descriptions. This ability to rank and sort candidates quickly is a huge win.

Daniel Miller: Another area is automation around scheduling. AI can manage scheduling efficiently, including buffers and availability. This helps streamline the scheduling process, reducing the back-and-forth.

Daniel Miller: Additionally, AI helps with various integrations, like creating job descriptions in seconds or generating screener questions. We integrate with AI tools to assist with different aspects of recruiting. For instance, chatbots can handle thousands of applications on your employer page daily without the need for manual conversations. AI is helping us save hundreds of hours a month in manpower.

Andy: It sounds like AI is making the recruiting process much more efficient, which is fantastic. Andy: Get hundreds of resumes right, but sorting through all that, you want to make sure that you find the diamonds in the rough. Spend your time digging into those resumes and interviewing those candidates to get the quality you're looking for. Aside from people emailing their resumes to you or signing up for job listings they've seen, what are some other great ways for recruiters or companies in general to recruit top talent and bring them into their company?

Daniel Miller: I think a lot of people need to focus on building out their networks, doing outreach, and utilizing platforms where people are engaged. Taking that outreach and engaging with it is crucial. Recruiters are becoming smarter with content engagement, and there are really great training companies out there teaching recruiters how to handle that training effectively. Companies are working to make the recruiting process as smooth as possible by developing a strong brand identity and image that attracts more candidates. How we handle messaging, LinkedIn statuses, and other communications creates an identity that people want to connect with. Nurturing engagement is essential, beyond just sending out mass emails.

Andy: Absolutely. There's a lot of emphasis on nurturing and handholding, as you mentioned. It's not just about throwing resumes into a black hole. It's about a curated process where the end result is that the candidate is a good fit for the company, both in terms of skills and culture. This leads to a more successful long-term relationship.

Daniel Miller: Exactly. Many of the best candidates are passive talent who may not be actively looking for jobs but become interested when they see your content and messaging. By demonstrating your expertise and building a strong brand, you can attract better talent through organic content and outreach. Additionally, referrals play a big role. Having a good employee referral program integrated into your ATS can be very effective because many major hires come through referral networks.

Andy: That’s a great point. Some of the best hires come from people who have worked with your current employees before and already have a good working relationship. Extending those connections into your new team can be very beneficial.

Daniel Miller: I agree. There are also some innovative companies that use social media and imagery to facilitate referrals, which can be highly effective. The more people know about your company, the more talent pools will connect with you through those networks.

Andy: So, what do you see with AI and the future of work? There are concerns that AI might cut a lot of jobs, but how do you see AI evolving with the workforce over the next few years?

Daniel Miller: There’s a lot to consider, but first, AI is significantly impacting the learning and development (L&D) space. People can now learn and figure things out faster than ever. If you're unsure about what questions to ask, AI can provide answers quickly. AI is also facilitating micro-learning, allowing people to dive into new areas of interest more efficiently.

Daniel Miller: Additionally, AI lowers the barrier to entry into various fields. For example, if you’re not the strongest recruiter in a particular niche, AI can help you understand resources, job boards, and other tools. AI is enhancing everyday jobs and upskilling, making learning and adapting to new markets easier.

Andy: That’s a significant trend. I know a few friends who have started L&D companies, reflecting this shift.

Daniel Miller: Yes, it's an exciting development. However, when it comes to automation, there are ways to do it wrong. Often, people rush into setting up automation without incorporating advanced controls. For instance, if you give someone access to your calendar without setting buffers, it can disrupt your entire day. Automation should be carefully managed to avoid overkill and ensure it doesn’t negatively impact your workflow.

Daniel Miller: Another example is drip campaign automation. If you don’t have mechanisms to pull candidates out of the campaign, it can backfire and affect how your organization is perceived. Similarly, chatbots should be set up with controls to avoid irrelevant conversations and excessive use of resources. Effective automation requires careful planning and implementation.

Andy: That’s a good point. You can't rely entirely on automation; there still needs to be a human touch. Chatbots, in particular, can be a double-edged sword if not set up properly. A bad experience early in the process can turn people away, especially if the chatbot leads them in circles or fails to provide simple answers.

Daniel Miller: Absolutely. I saw an example recently where a car dealership’s chatbot ended up providing information unrelated to the intended conversation. Proper controls are crucial to avoid such issues. I’ll send you the article—it’s quite interesting.

Andy: Please do. So, what industries are hiring right now? We’ve heard a lot about tech layoffs recently. Is this part of a normal cycle, or are there longer-term issues at play?

Daniel Miller: The conversation around tech layoffs is complex. It might be due to a shift away from traditional lead generation strategies like pay-per-click, which used to be highly effective but are now less so. Companies need to refocus on brand identity to stand out in a competitive market.

Daniel Miller: Tech companies have been affected by changes in sales strategies, which may not be as effective as they were a decade ago. There’s also a trend where companies that did IPOs might be facing challenges with product quality or market fit, affecting their workforce.

Daniel Miller: On the other hand, industries like healthcare, construction, and blue-collar jobs are in high demand due to a shortage of skilled workers. There’s a need for more career programs and training in these fields. Cybersecurity, AI-related roles, and data analysis are also growing rapidly. Meanwhile, sectors like retail, tech, and gaming, as well as supply chain companies, are experiencing workforce reductions.

Andy: It sounds like the job market is quite dynamic, with different sectors experiencing varying levels of demand and challenges. Andy: Healthcare is a hot trend. That’s something I’ve noticed as well. Many people think that tech jobs are the future, but there are also good opportunities in blue-collar work. I grew up in a small town where people in blue-collar jobs make good money, often comparable to tech salaries.

Daniel Miller: Indeed. It’s not always the first inclination for people to consider careers in fields like plumbing, but there can be good money to be made, especially if you're raising a family. There are also additional benefits like overtime, travel expenses, and per diem payments when working in commercial settings. It's crucial to promote more high school programs and entice people towards these fields because we need more skilled workers.

Andy: Exactly. We already have too many influencers; not everyone can or should aim to become one.

Daniel Miller: Absolutely. I see influencers filming everywhere in New York City all the time.

Andy: Failure comes with any profession. Can you tell us about a time you failed and what you learned from it?

Daniel Miller: Yes, I had a significant failure early in my career. I started working in corporate settings when I was just 15. I was extremely competitive, often to an unhealthy degree. I was competing against much older colleagues, and my tech skills gave me an advantage. However, my competitive nature created a toxic culture within my office.

Daniel Miller: My biggest failure was realizing that competition with my team was detrimental. I needed to focus on collaboration and helping others succeed rather than competing with them. This experience led me to become a corporate trainer. I learned that competition should be internal and self-driven, and that fostering a positive culture is essential. My actions and attitude significantly impacted the office environment, and things improved once I changed my approach.

Andy: That’s a valuable lesson. It’s the difference between being skilled and being a leader that people want to follow. By fostering an inclusive environment and uplifting others, you set yourself up as a natural leader.

Daniel Miller: Exactly. Even within your industry, getting along with competitors can be beneficial. We all learn from each other. Building positive relationships can lead to potential collaborations or acquisitions, and it helps everyone grow. I believe in the principle of a rising tide raising all boats. It’s important to support and learn from one another.

Andy: It’s great to hear that. A collaborative spirit benefits everyone.

Daniel Miller: Indeed. I follow industry influencers, consultants, and content creators on LinkedIn to learn and grow. Many of the best professionals are very generous with their advice and support, which pays dividends over time.

Andy: Absolutely. So, what’s one thing potential customers should know about RecruiterPM and why they should choose your platform?

Daniel Miller: RecruiterPM was built by recruiters for recruiters. We designed the platform to address the frustrations we had with existing tools, making it more efficient and user-friendly. It improved our own agency’s revenue by 27%, which is why we decided to take it to market. Our goal is to provide a comprehensive solution that continuously evolves to meet industry needs.

Andy: That’s impressive. What’s next for RecruiterPM over the next five years?

Daniel Miller: We recently had a product roadmap meeting and are excited about adding fintech elements to our platform. This includes features for invoicing and payroll.

Daniel Miller: We’re also focusing on open API integration. Although our API is not publicly available, it is accessible to our clients for various integrations. We’re planning to work with an integration company this year to ensure seamless processes for major enterprises using platforms like Workday.

Andy: That sounds exciting. We look forward to seeing how you grow and the new features you introduce.

Daniel Miller: Thank you! We appreciate your support. Our marketing ethos aligns with the idea that a rising tide raises all boats, so we’re thrilled to see our partners succeed and recommend our product.

Andy: For anyone interested, RecruiterPM is available in the B2B SaaS Marketplace, NachoNacho, with a 15% lifetime discount for members.

Daniel Miller: That’s right. Grab it today—RecruiterPM is ahead of its time and comes highly recommended.

Andy: Thanks again for joining us today, Daniel. It was great chatting with you.

Daniel Miller: Thank you so much. It was lovely chatting with you too. I look forward to our next conversation.