We’re here for another NachoTuesday and today I have Taylor Kendrick with impact.com we have Estelle turbulin with Appvizor and then we have Joe Cardillo with Acceleration Partners and today we're going to be talking about the state of B2B affiliate marketing there's a lot of exciting developments in this space recently and these are probably some of the key players that you definitely want to learn from today so we'll be asking this panel a lot of great questions to dive into the world of B2B affiliate marketing and hopefully uh help some of you marketers walk away with some great tips on how you can build your own successful program so with that without further Ado we'd love to have a tailor start with the introduction for what impact.com does yeah sure thing so impact.com Powers Partnerships at the end of the day so that could be performance civilian Partnerships or also kind of the paper post influencer model uh impact Powers the tracking the discovery of Partners the contracts the payments the reporting the attribution and so on um so yeah that's impact excellent and advisor yes advisor is um a media and a B2B uh lead generation platform uh B2B stats we specialize in in SaaS um businesses so yes this is what we do um in Europe and in us so if you're looking for uh expanding your um your SaaS a and and those markets and we can help you with that excellent you run the USA Market too is that correct exactly yeah and uh Joe yeah so I'm with acceleration Partners we are the largest global affiliate marketing agency um we were founded in 2007 and we've since grown to over 300 employees in 40 countries and we manage hundreds of Brands affiliate programs um B2B does make up a pretty increasingly larger size of our portfolio as well it's great to hear yeah it just leads me into my next question so a lot of people see affiliate marketing as kind of a b2c thing um you know it's obviously very popular there with Amazon and growing up over the last decade but B2B is really taking off right now uh so where do you see us going next with B2B affiliate marketing in this industry an open-end question for anybody to jump in uh yeah go ahead um you know I think it's important to think like how B2B has evolved in the past couple years right so naturally tons of B2B uh companies have been focused on focusing on products-led growth right so basically not having to interact with a sales person when they go to the website they can get set up uh and start paying for a subscription um immediately basically you know people aren't always dealing with sales people like they used to and that makes affiliate kind of how affiliate works if a little bit easier I think we're going to see a lot more uh a lot more demand in the B2B industry for mature and sophisticated affiliate programs absolutely how about you still I mean you guys represent a lot of SaaS products and help promote them in the form of a lead generator as well yes yes I think um it's we have to look at how the market evolved lately and it's been like um the stock market evolved exponentially with a lot a lot of of software coming out on the market um so I would say it's growing very rapidly and you have to yeah you have to think about a way you can promote your uh your company online um and this is how yeah this is like the question behind you know what's what's how do you target your audience um what content uh how you can yeah how you can stand up online um uh from your computers and and this is yeah this is the subject that an advisor we focus on excellent how about you Joe you guys work with a lot of great B2B Brands and you guys are obviously a go-to source for a lot of B2B companies that want to build their affiliate programs what are you seeing out there yeah we would definitely do um I mean I would say most recently especially with the pandemic there's been a lot of changes in the B2B buyer and Taylor you just touched on this with you know buyers seeking like digital first they're tech savvy they're younger or gen Z Millennial and I think um you know they want to interact and purchase directly on site and that lends itself really really well to affiliate marketing um so yeah a lot of our clients at AP are you know software they sell SaaS um we do have some more like kind of traditional B2B programs as well on more like service side or physical products but I think a lot of the growth in the industry has been software-led um and really yeah like impact is one of the very few you know affiliate platforms that are enabling B2B programs today I think that's been a challenge you know maybe three years ago was a lot of affiliate platforms didn't have the technology to enable you know the more required in-depth like tracking and Integrations with Salesforce for example so I think that's kind of caught up and now a lot more companies are like willing to experiment and launch affiliate programs that's great so what would you say to the business owners out there that are hesitant about jumping into B2B affiliate marketing um what would you know what could you say to them to get them over the edge here I mean I would say just consider the like cost effectiveness I think it's just very similar to b2c and traditional affiliate programs like one of the great strengths of affiliate is only paying out on performance right so it's cost effective you're expanding your reach I think CMOS are more willing to test new channels in the last few years um so if affiliate really just paying on performance it's your startup fees are pretty much just you know hiring in-house or an agency of course the network to build the platform but then you're only paying out on you know commissions for actual sales you know closed ones or leads so it should always be like a very affordable and profitable Channel definitely and then you have a platforms like impact as well that and I hope people to kind of go to a One-Stop shop if you want to find a lot of potential affiliate partners and scale your program really quickly um so yeah sorry yeah I was just gonna say um yeah regarding kind of like you know people business owners that don't believe in affiliate marketing for B2B um I'd say like have you looked at affiliate recently I mean it's not the same as it was 10 years ago it's not the same that it was five years ago the limitations just aren't there that that were there uh now um so like for example you kind of alluded to this a little bit Joe but you know impact we have Salesforce and HubSpot Integrations um you know which is perfect for for B2B companies even those that are LED uh the sales process is led by a salesperson um so you know the ability to automate manage track and attribute partner value uh based on where that opportunity is in the sales funnel so you know create an opportunity to a proposal Etc right so um yeah right and what would you guys say is uh some of the best tips that a business can follow to get their program set up successfully to ensure ensure long-term success from day one like a net new program someone's just getting started right yeah starting from scratch I would say I think you gotta consider the differences between like B to C and B to B first of course um for b2c affiliate you know consumer products are typically pretty easy they can be marketed pretty quickly um on social you know content websites short decisions they're typically priced under fifty dollars can make a quick and easy sale of course B2B has much longer sales Cycles it might be touching multiple decision makers in that buying group um so a lot more you know knowledge and product marketing is required for B2B companies so of course that goes is true for your customer um what I think a lot of programs I've probably joined like most B2B companies programs just to get a feel of like what they're doing how they're running their program and I feel like a lot are actually lacking in the sort of optimization activation like onboarding and what I mean by that is like really investing heavily into your programs resources and education in product marketing um not every affiliate that's going to join your your affiliate program is going to be Savvy with your Tech platform right um B2B products are more complicated they've got more Niche Target audiences extensive feature lists especially in the software space so I think really like focusing on training and educating the Affiliates as if they were a customer um this is really like as an affiliate manager you know there's always a lack of resources and hopefully a lot of this material like you might have a product marketing team right that you can kind of reuse some of that stuff in building out your affiliate program and those resources to educate new Affiliates like from day one to really engage them and train them so they can then of course relay that to Their audience excellent in Taylor just to kind of echo that I mean you can't put you know this is true for B2B affiliate also true for just all types of affiliate you can't put it on the back burner I think a lot of marketers looking at failing as maybe something they can set up that can kind of just be a little bit passive and drive them leads they can be so much more than that you know if you actually invest in the channel um you know you put bodies behind the program invest in an agency like like acceleration for example um and then you you will see affiliate take up uh you know 25 to 30 of your uh of your digital marketing spend or as far as the returns from it yeah I see that all the time a lot of people they they feel like they can just flip a switch and turn on an affiliate program and people are just going to come to them and want to promote them uh but you have to have like the right incentive for people to get them to want to sign up a lot of educational materials as well totally agree Joe and you know you just have to you know manually recruit these people sometimes and if you don't have the time for it it's good to get an agency that uh does this on the day-to-day already so um for sure still uh so you guys act more as like a publisher so you guys work with a lot of people as an affiliate as well uh what have you seen as the case of success for you guys being a good affiliate partner for some of the SaaS companies that work with you yeah so I think you you know you have like different type of publisher that you can work with um um I think the better of course you can um have like different source of of of um of audience and uh I think it you have you have your space depending on the type of publisher you have uh like blogs that is going to be low volume then you've got to have influencer that is rare and B2B market then you have you're gonna make I have General Media that have high volume but quality sometimes is difficult and then you have specialized media like us where you have high quality so I will say I will say yeah no it depends on your um on your on on what you target who you're targeting what Market um but I would say it's definitely important to work with a publisher like horse to be able to Target the right keywords uh for your audience yeah and you guys focus a lot on content generation too right that's kind of one of your key sources to kind of bring audiences in and then convert them is that correct yes it is um so basically today when you look at a software online uh you as as there is many many software uh difficult to stand out that have visibility on Google so what we do as a media and as a software comparison is that we create content on which uh we can um we're gonna give visibility to our partners so when you're going to look online for software you're gonna organically find uh keywords in which um we yeah we we target uh the the customer of our of our clients yeah and you guys do a lot of um you guys do a lot of reviews and that sort of thing too is that correct yes we also do yes yes indeed great uh so uh open-ended question uh what what tips would you recommend for finding and recruiting the right recruiters say if you're a B2B SaaS company uh where would you start a recruiter or the right publisher uh the right publisher sorry yeah yeah I will say um a fair and motivated into our business model so a percentage of the sale if it's affiliation because you're going to get X percentage on the cell and also depending on the lifetime value of the software I can be you know like one year two years or during the time that the person is using the software it requires a lot of time and energy for a publisher to um to of course a push your your solution so you have to find like a fair model um and of course the higher uh price of the selling price of your solution is I mean the more motivating and the greater interest is going to be for promoting a product now what what type of Publishers should Brands look for when building their program and where would they find these Publishers at I'll go ahead go ahead um obviously target audience is key right so the first thing I would do is probably talk to your paid search team and get a list of keywords right um just scrape serps you can use ahrefs Sam Rush do it manually find websites that are ranking for you know High intent keywords that your team is trying to find you know relevant customers for find websites that are talking about your competitors linking to your competitors to backlinks um also like influencers too I think B2B influencers are on the rise and you can check out Tick Tock and YouTube and find people speaking to mostly smbs and really emphasize on the small business and entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs but I think we see a lot of SaaS players recently um that are targeting smbs or aspiring you know entrepreneurs and they're very active on on social media and Tick Tock so literally just searching on on Tick Tock for like you know hashtag like marketing tips growth marketing whatever's relevant to your product and your customer and your target audience um it's a lot of like manual work there's no we've tried a lot of softwares and you know make it easy streamlining it um but at the end of the day like that that can help with prospecting but it's a lot of you know personal Outreach and um in relationships first and foremost right networking with people to to get them to try to promote your product of course and that's where you can lure them in and entice them with very competitive commissions um you know great landing pages co-branded landing pages for example work great I hate it when people are having their Affiliates send traffic to a home page it's always good land on something dedicated so there's a lot you can do there um but yeah cast a wide net send it's a lot of emailing uh calling when you can you know meet in person when you can but you might throw 100 darts at the board for for ten to stick so that's where it's really helpful to have like someone dedicated for recruitment because it is more of like a Biz Dev or sales person role at the end of the day now that's a great point that you bring up yeah a lot of people think you could just send one cold email on every affiliate just gonna jump on board it's all about relationship building right and yeah we wish and I think you mentioned my point about Tick Tock too right and I've heard a lot of B2B marketers don't think that's a viable option uh but I've heard other people that know what they're doing including yourself that say tick tock's an actually a great place to Market a lot of people have that misconception that because it's not a professional profile based uh a social network like LinkedIn we have name job title and all that uh everybody might be on Tick Tock as a consumer but all these people work places right and so you could really Target these people based on the type of content that they're watching and so that's where the B2B marketing comes in to be really effective to your point there so for your targeting videos and for the right keywords uh the business people even though they're on Tick Tock acting kind of like as a consumer those people are still the director of marketing at some company right spending time there to watch videos so um definitely a definitely a double up on that one yeah people are sleeping on it I think it's a silly dance app for tweens right but you know tick tock's algorithm for me like I get on and it's just it's almost annoying how much uh like sometimes I want the funny stuff and the the comedic light stuff but it's just like tips to grow your business use this software here's AI Tech tools and yeah it's something else and uh any other thoughts on that Taylor yeah just I guess the add-ons of The Tick Tock thing I mean that's how gen Z is looking to buy products these days they're looking for reviews from their peers AKA a favorite Tick Tock page that they follow or something else before they purchase anything um I will add one more thing on to the types of um types of partners that are great for B2B or B2B SaaS our brand to Brand Partnerships right and I know that acceleration Partners have facilitated a number of these on the BBC side and I think also one with maybe I think zenefits is one of them right where zenefits is an HR payroll type company what they were able to do is they identified and uh you know reached out to accountants HR Consultants Etc around the country that are in a place where they could potentially uh you know leverage or recommend uh benefits uh to their um to the people in their Circle basically so uh yeah yeah especially like um I know a lot of accounting software is built kind of a similar approach just going direct to like accounting consultants and that sort of thing and having a partnership with them maybe they get you know Kickback on the deal but um if you're already working with a bunch of clients and you have to use some sort of accounting software you know work with those guys because they're working with so many different clients and they have to use something every day and you know if they can save some money on the software and make some money for the referral you know that's definitely a win-win situation there and you know you make a great point there it's got to be a win-win relationship right and so the best Affiliates are the ones that are aligned with the type of product that you have and they believe that they could actually sell that product to their end customer and it's a win-win win-win-win actually for everybody there [Music] what do you see as some of the top trending software categories that uh Brands Publishers could look for actually to partner with I know AI is obviously a big software category coming out now but uh you guys have like Keen insights here so I'd love to hear from you on it yeah so uh if you look at the past years and we've seen that by basic Trends and the digitalization uh remain the same um it will be project management HR accounting uh blood PR like Business Development pillars and so on and then we've seen like a new trends uh year after years I would say like expense reports in uh 2017 then you have like a applicant tracking software at ATS uh in like 2018 uh task management 2019 then visual Conference during 2020 during covet and 2021 was around field management and then 22 low code we've seen a lot of loop out coming and then yeah 2023 uh it's all around uh intelligence and intelligence artificial intelligence so yeah yeah that's the last strength I would say yeah it's exciting to see I had a lot of the AI ideas and I see people just popping up with like 10 or 20 products uh that are very similar to those um but yeah everybody's launching something these days but uh uh so Joe question for you so many Brands you know might think hey you know this this looks easy right I could reach out to people and send an email to them um you know and they try to attempt to build an affiliate program themselves uh so what would he say I mean you've touched on a few benefits but if we can you know concisely say to these people this is why you should work with an affiliate agency to really ensure that your program's successful yeah for sure we definitely see a lot of that come through you know a dude work with sales sometimes for B2B leads or prospects and often um they come to us to say Hey you know I wanted to do this I thought I could do it myself uh turns out I don't I don't know what I'm doing and it I don't know how to like if I were to hire someone internally you know I'm not sure how to guide them um so they come to turn to agencies for that for that expertise that time saving um I mean I think the great thing I think affiliate managers have always been a little bit like under resourced in companies uh you know typically one one maybe two people running multi-million dollar programs they're wearing a lot of hats doing a lot of things themselves um you know leading on internal like marketing design engineer of course um but a lot of that strategy optimization relationships there's only so much you can do you know in the 40-hour week work week so definitely a benefit of the agencies of course the expertise and time saving but like at AP we typically staff a client with four to five people so that's you know four to five experts and brains and sets of eyes like on your program working for your program um so you don't have you know one affiliate manager stretch thin you've got a full team experts um you know we are Global too so APAC and we uh we're supporting clients um so that Global reach best-in-class resources expertise um the affiliate world's small and we've gobbled up a lot of the talent um and we have great relationships you know too and leveraging um like we have a publisher development team that has relationships with top Publishers and b2c and B2B so when we have a new client they might have a brand new program we're typically leveraging them in their relationship and we can go out to dozens of you know great fitting Publishers and say hey we've got a new client boom like Plug and Play easy um so it definitely makes a lot of that you know Recruitment and yeah introduce it a lot more streamlined for sure yeah as we mentioned yeah relationships are key in this industry so it's it's very important that uh you know working with like a an affiliate agency they already you know they know each other so it's uh yeah you're much more likely to get a good positive response from the email is coming from a company that they are they've already worked with um so Taylor impact has already a lot of brand and published publisher relationships uh can you maybe explain more about how impact helps Brands and Publishers connect and work together and then NFL weight model yeah I guess we're like Brands finding Partners things like that how they get connected yeah um yeah so I mean you can obviously find any type of partner within your platform and other platforms for that for that matter you know using filters promotional type um Etc so you know we've also plugged in like AI into our curation ability um so we're our Tech and recommend partners that you know really worked for other brands uh like the ones that are signing up or have started working with us um we also have like customer success now impact is a SaaS platform but we do have a big CS team and they definitely play a role in you know recommending uh certain Partners to help jump start your program um so there's like a real human element to that as well yeah I mean that's key to getting a getting a program going right ensuring that it's that those relationships stick and it's a long term it's long-term success onboarding is critical for anything in affiliate marketing uh So you you're the counterpart in the US launching into the U.S market for a European company uh since a lot of our audiences is a us-based what would you recommend for say U.S companies maybe SaaS companies that want to break into the European market and go the other way or the other way around yes yes I will say um Europe is complex so uh youth advisor but um no I feel um if we connect this to the affiliate marketing subject I feel like in Europe and in France it uh until my marketing is not that common I would say that um yeah a good amount of my partner I want to ask them like do you do affiliate marketing um uh they tell me that not yet or we don't have to we don't have the person uh we don't have the resources so I would say yeah we may be a late adopters uh compared to U.S markets I do feel that is uh definitely yes definitely uh different um I will say it's important to have depending on on the market your targets you really have to have a specific strategy for each market like you cannot just just duplicate uh your strategy because yeah the way you talk to an American is going to be a different you you talk to a French someone uh some early Italian or German so um and also because everyone is looking at information online today in terms of SEO you really have to have people focusing on that aspect and and today yes like it's it's so it's very difficult to have someone that is uh from us be able to have the right keywords the right the right content uh you know the right wording uh and be able to rank on on the on on on yeah online there so yeah this is why yeah for example advisor we have like seven different platforms advisor.com advisor.it4hle.du for Germany because the content that you push on those Market are going to be different and the way you approach the target is also very different um so yeah very specific strategy and then yeah being around if you don't have the resources internally um going on on Specialized media like ores or and and growing on uh trying to grow your affiliate marketing as well in Europe I definitely think that there is a lot of growth on the markets uh there is space in Europe yeah yeah I don't walk in and just say hey we're American people there um I know data privacy is another big one too right so not as a software company we're all about collecting data and there's you know a lot of people there's a lot of pushback especially from Europeans uh you know as early adopters and gdpr and a lot of you know a lot of other data privacy laws so it's very important that a lot of us companies going over there you know really understand those laws and you know more importantly the psychological effect it has on potential business users right they're going to consider from as part of their consideration set to buy your product um you know if you're actually going to protect their data what why are you asking for this data what are you going to do with this data this is very very important to it them to part of our go to market strategy too great so uh where do you see B2B affiliate marketing going from here for the next five years it sounds like we're at we've seen some exciting growth but I feel like The Best Is Yet To Come you mean to be optimistic I think it's going to be totally mainstream right so you're gonna have every B2B company in my opinion should have and will have an affiliate program um you know no surprise there the opportunity is going to be huge but you know of impact we're already seeing a 17 row outs uh for the B2B and services category you know more than doubling the average with search so the success is there the environment's changed a little bit um so yeah I see it I'd be seem to be massive the next couple years great what do you think Joe yeah I definitely agree I think we're going to see more and more adaptation and more companies you know leveraging this Channel and expanding to it now that technology supports it um you know AI is definitely a hot word right now and I've seen some buzz and how that will play but uh I don't want to get too much into speculation and how that might go but I think you know it'll certainly become like more and more data driven personalized integrated with other marketing channels uh there's definitely an immense opportunity for Brands and Publishers um that might be like an area that I hope to see a lot more growth in is the actual publisher side of B2B I think a lot of companies you know recruitment is probably their number one challenge they can build that great program have awesome onboarding education resources super competitive commissions um but really like the publisher side I think there's an immense opportunity too I think a lot of you know people out there kind of teaching affiliate marketing and getting people to get in as an affiliate um people typically will lean towards more saturated markets right like Health and Beauty Fitness pet supplies Etc um so I do think like B2B is actually like a really strong Niche to be in from like the content and affiliate side um so yeah I'm very optimistic and I think there'll be a lot of a lot of growth and success um this is why we um expanding uh advisor on the US market and we are digging our strategy also with partnership with uh with affiliate marketing and like impact or partner or other because there is definitely uh some great collaboration that we can uh that we can make work we just have to you know adapt coming from a different business model as a publisher we just need to find a path so we can uh we can make that work but definitely yeah yeah we definitely need more companies like app Pfizer but hopefully not too much so we don't have too much competition for you yeah I can see a lot more content sites popping up you know and great points about The Tick Tock influencers I you know I do see that as a huge opportunity because um you know what started maybe in some more of the b2c trends uh tips and tricks and whatnot and influencers there um I do see a big opportunity in the growth for B2B influencers too and you know if anybody's out there thinking about that opportunity just look at uh some of these Tick Tock influencers and some of the content that they're putting together as well um it's really just you know it's all about great content it's a Content game so you know if you have the right content uh there's tons of SaaS companies and Brands willing to work with you so it becomes an amazing opportunity there um so what would you guys recommend is a good resource for somebody to get started with affiliate marketing aside from talking to an agency and having a nice little TurnKey approach there where somewhere they can go online to learn more about B2B affiliate marketing yeah you know I feel like B2B is is super Niche and there's not a lot I mean my role AT AP I'm sort of an internal consultant and jump across you know dozens of B2B account teams and the teams are always asking me if for three insights and reports and like data you know anything I can share like virtually nothing that's like specific for like B2B affiliate outside of stuff that comes like I'd say go to impacts blog go to acceleration Partners blog um you know probably app visors got a great blog as well so looking at the players that are like doing it and reading their content um for more like formal sort of training I would really probably just lean into like where I learned affiliate which was more b2c related um I think Gino prusikov has like this Holy Grail textbook on affiliate marketing um that will really like teach you the one-on-ones the basics for sure um YouTube skillshare udemy you know if you like the course structure that can definitely get you down but for the B2B side and think like learning affiliate as b2c first and then just you know if you're on B2B and like working in the industry you've probably got that figured out already um and just need to learn the affiliate and it's kind of like a hybrid you know of those two two different areas that you can combine yeah I mean to add on to Joey uh to Joe uh impact for the last like one or two years we've been we put together some pretty comprehensive affiliate training courses what we call the partnership Academy um it's pretty awesome for anybody getting into affiliate or already adequate and affiliate I believe we have maybe a little bit of content there about the debate but yeah I mean I think everybody needs to start uh in affiliates with b2c it's just a lot more simple uh B2B has a lot more nuances um and as far as like books to recommend um I know rco put out a book called what was it called um uh I forgot but uh uh rco put out a book and Robert Glaser also put out a book I think it's called performance Partnerships which um is awesome and it looks at Partnerships uh in the way it's supposed to be you know going forward versus what it was in the 2000s so yeah I'm glad you mentioned that uh Bob Glazer is our founder and CEO and him and our our founder and our current CEO Matt Lowell have published a book recently um performance Partners Partnerships there's also Elevate and moving outcomes um so there's great books as well do they have an affiliate link for that promoted yeah let me uh let me pull up my Amazon account real quick just can't thank you I just promote everyone for free it's my job how about you still for me um I have two in mind books in mind that um um have been last week last for Tech Conference conference in Austin it's called South stock and I met a kid it's actually a B2B influencer Uh Kevin uh Dorsey I don't know if you heard about him and he mentioned two bookstore it's a little more Global it's not only on isolation but I think it's very a it's very actual uh with our economy so the first one is called um and it's a hard word for me to say starting in in a in tough times uh secrets to uh selling when no one is buying and this is by Thomas by Tom Hopkins and then there is a second one that is called the jolt effect um and it's how how um High performer how become customer indecision and it's by Matthew Dixon and uh and Ted McKenna so those two books I think are pre-relevant and and just like yeah a little more global great tips well um what's what's next for your guess is uh platforms for the next year or two any exciting updates I mean I'm sure there's probably some EI power tools that uh impact's working on uh do you guys got anything in that department yeah I mean it's safe for impacts we'll really banking on going forward is the creator economy uh so that's uh you know basically paper post influencer type campaigns looking at Partnerships uh you know with affiliate and those performance Partnerships but also looking at you know um traditional influencer type relationships um so we recently just merged a company we have acquired about two years ago called activate which is a pure influencer play um into um into impact.com2i um so uh that's what we're really going forward with and uh so yeah it should be a fun year so that's exciting uh how about you guys Joe are you guys just stumbling down on uh Conquering the world space grows yeah we're trying to No Doubt you know just in the past year we've acquired two companies we acquired grobion which was a ffiliate marketing agency but really specialize on recruitment um so again like a lot of the teams that struggle with recruitment grovy is like this is what we do best uh which was like an influencer marketing agency because we're seeing a lot of hybrid and similarities between the two of course um so my guess is those won't be the last we'll we'll probably continue to expand and grow through Acquisitions um expansions in Europe and Asia and definitely B2B as well so you guys are well you're in charge leading the charge over taking over the USA for app Pfizer um yes yeah we're definitely looking for I mean in the U.S markets there is a lot more software being created and a lot of yeah we can help um software creators grow in Europe and we can also have European uh SaaS grow in the U.S markets uh the EA is definitely going to be involved uh and in the airport content creation and then you just have to a yeah we'll see how a we just have to Target and put the right information at the right time for the right target um so yeah this is how I see the company growing and how um how well yeah partner with a um agency like a like impact and yes I guess definitely on connect if you haven't already I'm sure you have but um well great everybody uh thanks for the time today you know I think this is an excellent discussion I'm personally very excited as it seems you guys are as well for the the growth in B2B affiliate marketing I think we have some really exciting times ahead um So for anybody looking for a you know a great publisher and a way for their SaaS to get discovered uh definitely check out app advisor they're here in the USA now um if you need people they're just going to run the whole thing for you um that are experts in the field definitely check out acceleration partners and if you're looking for a go-to One-Stop shop as a brand to find Publishers or if you're a publisher looking for Brands impact.com Scott em all and they're one of the best names in the industry so I definitely recommend working with all three of these amazing companies uh which are all Partners here with nacho nacho so if you need a connection just feel free to reach out to one of our nacho nacho team members and we'd be happy to connect you if not going directly so once again everybody thank you for the time today and uh we look forward for the exciting growth in B2B affiliate marketing over the next few years yeah thank you for having me thanks Andy thank you.