Welcome to another nacho Tuesday and today we have Sandeep we have Michael and we have Koko three very experienced sales leaders and today we're going to talk about sales Trends in 2023 and without further Ado I'd love for you guys to introduce your companies uh starting with Sandeep thanks for that Andy uh hey guys I'm Sandeep I'm from outlay uh so outlay was a company that started off as a sales engagement platform but uh We've evolved quite a bit and uh we're just not the (00:38) same engagement platform anymore we are an all-in-one sales tool that helps you build uh the top of the funnel uh and we give you like the options of sales engagement conversation intelligence uh scheduling your meetings all of that in just one uh single dashboard so that's what outlay is all about great and Michael uh hi everyone my name is Michael and I represent apricot IO so what apropo does is actually we're pretty much jira for software estimates so uh what our product does is that the standardizes and the most most (01:11) importantly automates um software project estimates which is uh one of the very reasons why you can uh win the deal which is one of the subjects that we're discussing today great in Cocoa please introduce your company hey guys nice uh nice to meet you all and your thanks for having me here as CEO and co-founder of nymblr see I I got a nice t-shirt today to kind of demonstrate what we do today uh we focus on providing B2B salespeople sdrs and marketers with high quality lead data for their outbound campaigns (01:49) which includes uh work emails that we verify in real time most of emails and uh high quality mobile numbers great so um yeah ai's been a Hot Topic lately as you guys have all heard um how do you guys see AI affecting sales for for your teams and potentially other companies today see uh here is a doublet Squad yeah so I think uh it can be used the right ways it can it can go wrong it cannot use in the right way as well uh but I think uh people are trying to crack it and start using the right way so that it helps (02:21) them with efficiency today A lot of people are talking about personalization but uh when it comes to at least the outbound side of sales uh when you're personalizing too much you might uh uh the scalability might get a hit so uh that's when a technology AI kind of helps so much more uh for the sales people uh it helps them uh also get information uh at scale uh for different uh personas that they want to reach out to or different Personnel that you want to reach out to so it kind of helps build efficiency in the system uh if (02:52) used the right way I have also one example to share here and to add my two cents to what something just said uh I think it will really um not really revolutionize the things but make a Salesman to be able to reply to uh to reply to rfps or create proposals faster just to give an example uh one week ago I was creating a proposal and um in response to RFP and one of the questions set in this area in this RFP that I had to answer was how do how will we ensure that the software that that you will build will uh be as (03:27) easy to integrate as possible normally I would ask this type of questions to my CTO but he's a very busy guy so I asked it to my new best friend Chad GPT and uh tell you what he gave me and the answer I showed it to my CTO and my CTO actually said that you know they actually gave you a better answer than I than I would so uh in my opinion that's one of the Practical examples how it can uh evolve or take sales onto the next level green how about you Coco you're the lead generation King with uh since again (04:00) but it's definitely not something that it's quite ready for you to rely on it completely and you still need to do a job it will help to be more efficient obviously but I think in the in the next uh few months in the next year we'll see about my Innovation coming from players like out there coming from players like us I'll pull everybody else that's interesting so I think we're moving uh closer to you know allowing sales people to actually do their job and sell versus wasting time alone I don't know Revenue (04:31) generating activities yeah and as you mentioned in the last webinar that we did you know you can never really totally replace the human element so you have to be careful there right people you know sales people are still very much safe when it comes to AI in my opinion because people still like to buy from people uh so you know it's very important to keep the sales people on the front lines and keep uh your sales Outreach and everything that you do very authentic um you know that being said you know there's a lot of great AI tools out (04:58) there that people could be using a lot of people are using catch apt and other tools for for say ai ai based copywriting uh but you can get into a tough pickle there if you if uh you rely on the tools too much and it comes across as inauthentic because the uh the eye doesn't you know properly read their profile or write uh write a sentence that really people are starting to get better at actually you know determining if the content's actually AI written or not uh so it could actually have a you know very negative effect if you don't (05:25) implement it the right way uh so with that said do you guys have any strategies for people to implement AI into their organization what would be the first step they could take they could take uh so first and foremost I think uh it needs to solve a problem if it's not going to solve a problem just because uh some technology is there doesn't mean that it has to be painted right so uh first of all we need to identify what is the problem area that we're trying to solve by implementing an AI solution um and then if it is actually solving (05:53) for the problem like example like I'm going back to the same example of the Outreach process in terms of going out and and doing the outbound and reaching out to prospects maybe writing the personalized emails is where people might take a lot of time so if that is actually AI is going to help you solve that problem then it makes sense for you to implement it but also when you implement it uh be very sure like how you said Andy uh the the End customer the end Prospect uh they are getting very smart they also understand uh (06:20) whether it's air written or a human has actually gone ahead and done some research and written so uh I think there needs to be uh one level of check till uh we get to the space where we are completely confident that AI can do the job by itself uh till then we need to have like a check in place to make sure that whatever emails or anything the content that we're sending out to prospects are double checked for uh what kind of content is going out is it even resonating with the person or that they're sending to all of that need to (06:48) be checked because uh then then we are trying to see that uh if the technology that is being implemented is adding value or it's just a generic email that might just go out again not adding any value so so all that I think still needs to be uh having a process in place but but only fix it if there's a problem and I could definitely ruin your reputation too if you do it the wrong way so it's you know it's better to do things right even if it's uh you know you still are doing it manually the old (07:16) classic way uh rather than rely on AI too much uh what about you Michael or coco well for me it just copy paste what Sandeep said uh I mean uh implementing AI just for the sake of implementing AI because it's AI is is a waste of time right you will you will uh you will spend a lot of time on it and get and get zero out of it so it should definitely there should definitely be a need to solve a specific problem with AI that's one thing another example that I can give again from my Niche which is software development is the one that (07:45) I've uh they have already given five minutes ago so there's always a struggle especially in software companies to get a time of Professionals of professional developers because they always have projects they are always coding coding they are always doing everything right and to they don't have that luxury to sit down with you and uh explain you how software works for three hours so instead of uh instead of not responding to an important question of your client that he set out in the RFP because your (08:14) programmer didn't give you enough time you can ask for example about it and probably for 99 it will give you a very precise on the very robust answer I mean it did work for me pretty well so uh that's one of the examples how I would advise implementing AI in software organizations great how about you cocoa yeah I mean there's a lot of good tools out there I I suggest just look at what's best for your business and what what improves your business uh don't just add AI for the sake of always this too you know uh (08:45) if there's a real need then it can make your life easier go ahead and do it but also you know find the AI is not perfect today right so always always um spend an extra minute here and there to make sure that whatever you're generating is is accurate because uh there's nothing worth you know pissing people off and it's not like you're just using AI eating homework certainly and that's Sandy what are your thoughts on other you know automation hacks that people can can do today or have been doing over the last year (09:18) that's you know regardless of AI uh what are some other automation tips that you would have for sales people to kind of streamline their entire sales Outreach and workflow so uh when it comes to sale yeah so today when it comes to outbound crosses uh the only risk that we run is uh uh at least for the SMB side of things uh the Enterprise side you do have intent data and all of that but uh we're not sure how accurate that is sometimes uh sales reps might be knocking on the wrong doors so how quickly can you move on and (09:48) knock on the right dose so for that uh you can identify certain things through automations in uh tools like maybe outplay itself skinning an example but there are the tools as well that you can use so you might be reaching out to about 100 prospects uh you can identify who's engaging with you a lot more uh by using these tools so that what you can do is you can you can concentrate more on the ones that I've engaged with you a lot more and then and then uh probably knock on the other doors already record (10:14) in time so this kind of gives their sales reps a more targeted approach uh so identifying who your right prospects are even through uh the subtle hints that their prospects are giving you from time to time and then automating them and making sure that they're going through a completely Trend workflow and not making every Prospect go through the same workflow kind of would help your sales rep uh kind of have that more targeted approach towards getting the right opportunities building a bigger funnel so all that I think it says sales (10:42) organizations can um can start implementing within the the system then I think it will make life easier for the outbound process uh oriented sales reps at least a great Point um so Coco um some things would never change in sale you always are a big proponent of you know just sales are all about you know it's all about the people that you're selling to and the relationships are very key there uh so what would you share some time proven techniques for sales that regardless of all the latest trends that we have this (11:10) year are still always going to be important yeah that's a that's a good question now when everybody's talking about uh Automation and all this this hacks you know for which you would use a secret uh it's called a cold calling and texting right so people now think that their their entire job will be done by a platform that's automated email outbound or whatever but to be to be quite honest with you cold calling works better than ever right now because most of the sales people out there are just lazy they don't want to pick up the (11:48) phone they're they're intimidated you know uh and this creates more opportunities I can give you an example the other day I used our two we have Prospect we actually gave him a demo right so I had their email I could have followed up I could have sent them an email but instead of doing that I went uh I went to our platform I got the mobile number I sent them a text you know and text is a good way because people are busy you know you need to communicate with them the way they want to communicate uh so I send them a text (12:23) they reply right away and two days later they were paying customers and they were very impressed by that and and actually it was there before a matter of communication platform so cold calling texting people getting access to high quality mobile numbers is really important uh having that voltage really helps in my opinion said I totally agree to what Coco said because uh today a lot of reps are not very happy about picking up the phone and making a call uh that's because uh they kind of add the result to the whole (12:57) cold calling aspect and not bring in a human element to it uh so I suppose I think there should be like a shift in the mindset when uh reps are actually cold calling their prospects uh they need to be in a situation to understand uh that they're trying to have a conversation to see if someone's having a problem that they can solve for and uh not kind of take it too personally and add a result to it so that if someone says no uh that doesn't mean that they're saying a no to them that's just (13:24) that they don't have a problem and they don't have anything to be solved there so it's just about uh bringing that human element that you're trying to call a human being and then only trying to solve a problem for them and not make it uh just an opportunity or a meeting that you want to book with that person so I think once that kind of mind a change happens with reps uh there might be a little bit more open to taking the big info and calling people and then might not be uh so uh Earth by the the (13:53) negative responses that might they might get from the other end of the call yeah it's a very consultative approach right so you're there to help people at the end of the day and the better you can understand their problems and have that conversation with them especially over the phone a live conversation brings out so many more details and information than you could get over an email which a lot of people just ignore right and the problem is you know we talk a lot about Automation in this webinar where it's so easy to just do an (14:19) automated email campaign and a lot of people rely on that right and a lot of people on the other side also have a very automated approach to just say no and uh you don't get the sale because of it but if you just get on the phone and just uh have that dialogue with people I could actually solve the problem rather than you know it's easy for them to ignore you and it's easy for you to send more emails but it's not necessarily more effective yeah you're right you can't build a relationship and express emotions via (14:47) email right that's very difficult to do and calling somebody talking to them it gives you your opportunity to make a good impression to build a personal relationship can really qualify them very quickly if they're all right fit and if you can help them out that way you're not wasting their time and you're not wasting your time of course and you can move on to the next opportunity I don't know if you guys have heard of that but there is uh there is some sort of a new tool out there that's using AI (15:12) to cold call people and generate the generate the you know the transcript and all that and I got approached by people looking for mobile numbers they're asking if I can you know help them out and you know the mobile number so they can cold cold 10 000 people using the AI too and I was like I think this is the dumbest idea you know it's been going on forever we've had a horrible calls forever there's nothing new so I don't think the people appreciate having a local uh cold selling and pitching you uh on your (15:44) personal phone so my advice is if you if you called call do it do it personally get to understand who your colleague can be personalized yep yeah that's a great point because when I get a call from the sales rep that's like you know that that uh is personally calling me I'm much more likely to notice that voicemail for instance and actually call the person back um that with a you know personalized email Outreach as well kind of hit me from two channels um it's it's not really annoying actually you (16:12) know I kind of appreciate that they're actually trying to communicate with me uh but you know everybody's relying on those automated dollars right now and that's the first way to just really tune me out and I just from there on Fourth just say ignore that company you know I might even report um so with that being said uh what what other sales methodologies do you guys uh do you guys encourage your team members to have I mean there's value-based selling there's questions based selling um do you have any recommendations there (16:39) that other people can follow definitely value-based setting definitely so if uh the end Prospect uh does not understand or see the value in your product I don't think that conversation is going anywhere so understand if you're uh if you're a prospect needs the solution or has a problem that you can solve and then bring out the value that your product can bring to the table so that then it becomes so much more easier as a conversation if that is not identified or brought to the table I don't think uh (17:12) today's sales people will go anywhere in terms of that opportunity or with their numbers so I think value-based selling is is any day top priority for for at least my organization and and uh and whatever I've been telling my reps if you don't identify any pain point if there's it's not it's not a qualified opportunity so don't don't start uh investing more time there I think the other was knock on a lot of times people rely and they want to think go ahead Michael uh yeah and one technique that I have (17:41) that I wanted to add to this kind of um an addition or an evolution of what what what uh something just said is what I always tell my sales reps when they are going for a uh for a call or for meeting with the client that they is that I tell them don't sell and we even have uh we haven't we even have it written with capital Red Letters uh in our in our sales room and what I mean by don't sell is that you know a lot of salesmen when they go for a meeting with a client or when they engage in the conversation they always like have this (18:09) mindset that I have to sell something this guy I have to bring a contract I have to you know uh generate some Revenue uh which of course at the end of the day is why we hire them right but uh but if you approach a customer with this kind of mindset that I have to sell him something that is a 100 guaranteed recipe that you're ain't gonna sell him anything because uh how you should be thinking is you should be uh you should you should be thinking how how I can help this guy so pretty much uh pretty much what Sandeep said not how I should (18:39) sell him but uh how I would talk to him if that was my buddy who's asking me asking me for an advice another potential customer who has uh five five hundred thousand dollars budget right so I think that's the key stops if you want to sell stop selling although it may sound cliche you're there to solve problems at the end of the day and if your product doesn't help solve their problem then it's not really your customer right so now on to the next person um but if you keep that strict focus on helping people solve (19:09) their problems and your product can actually do that and you your your questions are pulling out that problem from them and so you could better understand that and better align like how your solution could actually solve that problem that's the way to make the connection and you know how help them see value in their product exactly Coco any ideas about that as well uh I mean my only advice is uh don't don't skip steps in sales courses and and the first one and most important step it doesn't matter if it's a cold (19:39) call if it's a demo that you got from an invalently uh step one qualify it's yes no and then next steps that's the first thing you need to do and the way you do that is you ask questions and then you shut up and you listen and and you you'll be able to quickly tell if there's a there's a bit and if you should move forward and getting more is almost as good as getting a yes you know there's okay this is not a good opportunity that's a great Point uh Sandy what are the biggest bottlenecks and sales (20:10) organizations today and how can they resolve them uh so I think the biggest bottleneck I think in most sales organizations today uh is getting reps to actually call I think Coca-Cola a little earlier but uh most reps are afraid to call today like if I if I take a number I would say almost 50 60 of the Reps don't call and and that's that's exactly what I tell my team as well like uh they might you know today there is there is a very little uh chance of a product being a monopoly in the market so if you're in (20:42) the market there are 10 other players as well uh minimum of 10 other players as well who are doing the same uh thing that you are doing and offering the same solution that you're offering so what makes the difference uh knocking on the customer's door uh you might be comfortable sending emails you might be comfortable uh sending messages on LinkedIn but I'm sure the other 10 uh companies are also doing the Reps and other 10 companies are doing that but if you take the number of rats or actually calling then uh that number drops (21:10) significantly when it Compares when it compares to other companies in the market so I'm saying uh try to stay on top of the calling but I think uh that kind of uh takes a hit in most sales organizations because I think people people relate their cold calling to uh immediately getting a rejection so they've not they've not changed their mindset of okay I'm going to have a conversation with someone just to see if they're they're open to uh sharing if they have a problem if at all they have (21:35) a problem then I'm seeing if my solution can solve that problem if not then we shake hands and move on yeah anybody that's trying to onboard to your platform right get up pick up the phone and call anybody that's signed up for for your platform as a as a minimum and I think I think uh to a large extent uh sales managers also don't have visibility in terms of uh how the calling is going and uh and cold calling is just not cold calling anymore it's it's evolved as as well I think there is (22:06) a little bit of uh I'll call it a warm call actually because in certain ways because you have so many channels in which you're trying to reach out to your prospect uh you might have emailed them a bunch of times you might have reach out on LinkedIn some bunch of times so they may have seen your brand and your sales reps names somewhere so that one call that you are going to make is actually not a cold call anymore so they are familiarized with your brand name and your sales person's name somewhere (22:30) so persist about having that conversation and seeing if we can solve a problem I think uh the visibility is missing in terms of whether that call is happening or not in certain cases and sometimes the call doesn't happen so I think uh all of that needs to be approached with a more human angle and then and then not associating that with the result I guess uh would you recommend any tools that people can use for managing outbound calls for their team so they have like full transparency and analytics for who's doing what maybe (22:59) call notes absolutely there are multiple tools right even outplayed as it uh but there are competitors out there who are also doing the same thing so first and foremost uh I see item is softly another tools I got play are not like crns they are like something that sits on top of the CRM that helps you do the uh whole outbound process so I think having a sales engagement platform in place not necessarily our clay but any tools that kind of caters to this use case uh will solve for this because it gives you the (23:26) visibility it also gives you a more targeted approach so kind of helps you uh build that uh that momentum and also the calling and encouraging people to do that and managers also have that visibility in terms of what's happening with each rep so I think having a tool like that in place would solve for your use case it's a great Point um so they say time kills deals uh Michael so what would you recommend for you know helping your reps close a deal getting it done right and getting it done fast so they don't miss out on an (23:55) opportunity sure so what I always say is that the sales pipeline of course it consists of many stages but the two uh you can group them into two like super stages the first one is getting shortlisted and the second one is getting picked out of the companies or out of the competitors that have user listed right and there are different factors that matter on each of this stage so uh for example for getting shortlisted your customer is not interested in seeing a perfect proposal or a perfect super detailed price your (24:25) customer is not interested in understanding whether it's going to cost 574 dollars and 13 cents he is interested to understand whatever is going to cost 10 100 1000 or 10 000. just see if you uh if if you guys are pretty much uh the match in terms of you know um ethics of work budget Etc so um I'd say on this very first stage when you uh when you don't really have the time uh and other companies work with each other to uh fight with each other to secure pole position in the race for the client don't be perfect so learn what is (25:02) good enough learn what your customer needs at this very stage because if you'll uh spend working two weeks for creating a proposal that is an Olympic winner game it might win Olympics but it will not win you a client so just uh learning what's good enough uh and uh focus on focus on getting uh getting your your client on your call on getting its relationship with him understanding what's his problem and providing him a solution that is good enough at this stage and then when you get your listed then you can master your proposal and uh (25:36) whatever and provide your client with whatever materials you want so that's the advice that I would give great and uh Coco getting to the right decision makers key and uh you know obviously someone that runs your platform with a you know a large lead database what would you recommend for any business owner or sales person to get to the right uh the right ideal customer um you know what process would you recommend for that yeah I I think that's extremely important right uh download your customer profile is step one before you (26:09) start any campaign because it doesn't matter how good the lead data is or the automation of the content you reach out to 100 people that they're you know another good feed natural ICP then you'll not get any interactions so really two things that I would recommend uh the easier one is if you've already been in business right and you have 10 customers kind of customers 500 customers um and you own more than your new sales person it's very easy to go but hey let me show you some of our best customers (26:40) this is what they do this is the industries this is the use case that they have this is the problem that we sold for them go and find our competitors go and identify all of their similar companies like that uh and and reach out to them then when you do that and when you reach out to to a similar company that don't go away work with you have a lot more credibility right and you know you can support them you have customers who are happier in each same industry so that that's really the easiest way to go after your video (27:10) customers but not every company out there not every sales person out there has um privilege of uh having existing customers right maybe we've just started uh you've accomplish your business Your Service uh and it's a little bit more difficult so in that case I'll start with the use cases identify who is more likely to to have the problem than to solve uh and then you start knowing it down obviously you want to go after the decision makers identify their pain points um because not everybody is your (27:40) customer and a lot of startups uh sales people make a mistake to think that everybody is their customer who do you think is the the ICP for um for Amazon and you know somebody else said oh everybody is there I see everybody's on Amazon but Amazon knows not everybody and they focus on specific uh first of all that they go after so really that's the mistake that a lot of people make thinking that everybody could be there in your customers and then they can get discouraged yeah and it's much easier to land and (28:24) expand um they go like a beachhead method I guess uh really really Niche customer especially if you're an early stage startup uh getting a very Niche customer serve those people then you can figure out how to expand other expand that that profile to a you know a wider audience base and I'm sure Amazon is a great example actually by the way they started selling books right so their customers people that were interested in buying books online as opposed to going in the store now they have pretty much everything and their ideal customer (28:52) profile for AWS is going to be different than their ideal customer profile for the marketplace buying shoes so that's a great point um so Michael a lot of inexperienced uh business professionals don't understand contracts well uh so if we're going to give a crash course today what would you recommend to look out for in these contracts especially when it comes to software contracts there's a lot of gotchis in there well the first and the biggest advice that I would give here is read them so that's my number one advice (29:21) for every for every contract start reading them and the second advice that will uh that will help you as well is understand and really believe that all what's written in there will be used either in your favor or against you like sooner or later is it will happen so stop believing that you know that there will always that things will always be good and uh and they will never break because ultimately that's what the contracts are for they are for the bad times right so uh I can guarantee I can promise you that it will happen to you (29:53) sooner or later that you will you will have to uh refer to the contract in in some dispute right so in such cases it's better that you have this country correct uh written in a way that that it's that that it helps you and the first advice that I will give here is uh it's always good to review them with the lawyers but you have to be careful what lawyer you pick because uh if you pick a lawyer who doesn't understand the industry or it's just you know he may as well kill the deal because he (30:21) will bring up 50 comments out of which 48 referred to things that that generally never happen or are totally totally Irrelevant for this particular client and you will spend next three or four months um fighting with client uh over each of these comments well you could have uh well well you could have as well comment on uh three four maybe five items that are really critical and prone to happening so these are the top three advices that I would give out of my experience to any entrepreneur who starts business and uh (30:56) yeah and uh hasn't yet hasn't yet uh tasted This Bitter side of uh of legal stuff yeah and if uh if you're going to look at a couple sections you could just you know glance down to and uh you know shortcut the whole thing obviously the termination Clause is very important uh what other Clauses would you recommend that people you know beeline towards if they want to just get you know put in 20 of the effort to understand 80 of the contract sure so for sure determination uh the second thing would be what are the rules (31:26) for what are their reasons for fermentation if there are any if there are even any specific reasons the other things uh I would definitely uh recommend checking is um are the are the commercial terms but not really the rate card because that's obvious I mean uh who pays for what so of course you know especially in software contracts you have fixed price you have time materials you have teamleasing Etc so uh in case if the project goes over the budget who pays for it right that's that's that's very (31:57) important and one of one advice that I uh that I do have here also especially for young entrepreneurs is uh add to all your contracts uh consent for the client that he consents to use his or their logo or uh project description as a form of case study because that will massively help your business uh the thing is that if you put it in the contract by default and the client will read it he will most probably just you know scan it with ice and and just agree with it uh so just have it in your uh in all your default contracts that will (32:28) really massively help you uh gain future customers because you will have case studies and uh some big brands that you will be able to brag about it's a great Point uh get it get out of your question Michael because you spoke about go ahead and uh when I've been enjoy the contributor now I'm a sales leader uh still this class kind of keeps coming up with most uh uh deals that we're trying to close uh at least I would say it's a 50 50. (32:55) uh people talk about indemnification uh when there's a breach in terms of uh data or or anything uh indemnification becomes like a a class that most people want uh coverage some people ask for unlimited identification and and some people are okay with a limited uh Indemnity so how do you handle that how do you see how do you see that as a challenge when it comes to uh contract sure so uh of course now it depends uh what kind of control are you reviewing because it may be a construct for products and it may be a contract for (33:29) service in terms of service well you know uh actually I never had a situation uh in service Concepts where the clients uh wanted uh Unlimited in the medication I mean uh for example to uh for the entire contract uh contract Demand right usually how we solve it is that we agree with the client that the maximum indemnification can be up to depending on the client up to three or uh six months of the um of the recently paid fees so that is maximum that we agree we usually practically we usually never go uh above (34:05) three months but you know I'll tell you what uh things would have to go really really downwards and uh like really real downwards for the client to ever use it I mean it would mean that you effectively are uh you know uh having very very bad relationship are threatening and threatening each other and so on because usually when uh when things get a little bit worse uh and I had the situation uh 100 times in my in my uh in my career at different companies it usually just ends uh with uh with some sort of um with some sort of mutual agreement (34:45) about how you're going to uh to sell the things right and you know at the end of the day these guys are people as well their business is not to chase you and to go over to the court because it costs money it costs time which is even more valuable than money so they usually will just want to be treated to her so uh that's how we handle it I mean usually up to three months uh worth of fees but realistically we never ever situation I never ever had a situation when a client was even referring to this clause (35:20) all right points well um guys thanks again for uh joining us today uh to discuss sales Trends in 2023 now we talked a lot about of a lot of very exciting Automation and AI things as well as other you know trends for sales today but uh you know nobody should ever forget that sales is really just about people helping other people uh so that's you know another key concept that I really believe came out of this conversation and you know I think still regardless of everything happened out there in the market with (35:48) technology uh people just you know you got to pick up the phone and call people have that personal relationship and just be there to actually help people solve their problems and that's the key to success in your sales organization um so once again thank you so much guys everybody should check out their products in the B2B SaaS Marketplace uh so we have them all listed there we have outplay apropos and nimbler available today for uh for a nice little cash back in the nacho nacho B2B SaaS Marketplace uh the number one place to manage (36:17) discover and save on SaaS and once again Sandeep Michael and Coco appreciate you guys coming on today and uh look forward to working with you guys long term my advice thank you very much for this wonderful opportunity Andy have a nice day nice meeting you.