Here we are with another NachoTuesday. This would be our fourth episode. That's a tremendous, uh, tremendous success over here so far. Today we have Michael from Apropos. Um, if I'm saying that correctly, Apropos actually is correct. Apricot, great! Yeah, so apparently a lot of people get that wrong. I just want to get that across right away so people don't butcher it like I do or anybody else for that matter. It's Apropos, yeah, yeah. But no problem, everybody. Not everyone spells it correctly. We kind of got used to it, so no harm done. Don't worry. Oh, let it all out, man. It's your brand, so we definitely want to make sure that, you know, everybody, uh, yeah, a company named broadcasted in CNBC. I'll make sure they spell it correctly. I'll be the one holding up the sign with the pronunciation on it. Awesome! Well, thanks for joining us again today. You know, we'd love to learn with a quick elevator pitch what Apropos does, if you can. Sure, no problem. So, uh, to put it really short, Apropos is a software-as-a-service tool for automating project estimates in software companies. So, specifically, what it does is that it first of all helps software companies to standardize their quoting processes, and as a result, estimate their projects or spend eight times less time on estimating their projects and win more of them at the same time. So, generally speaking, it helps with project estimates to make them more accurate and at the same time faster and at the same time still to win more projects by turning these estimates into closed deals. So, that is what we really do. Great! Everybody wants more closed deals, right? I mean, that's how your company grows. Exactly! So, given the proposal process today and what it looks like, especially with a lot of them being virtual, a lot of business being done that way today, what does that look like today and what's wrong with the current proposal process that you see a lot of companies having? How would you go about improving it? Sure. So, first of all, it's worth mentioning that the proposal process differs based on the industry. So, it looks differently in the construction industry, it looks different in the software industry, it looks different in online marketing, right? What we're focused on right now is the software development industry because, believe it or not, it's one of the most innovative industries in the world, and at the same time, it still uses very legacy quoting methods. So, to give you some specifics, most of the quotes or most of the quoting is actually done in tools like Excel or Google spreadsheets. So, you know, or so, generally, tools that have not been designed to serve this purpose. And because of that, you know, companies that do quoting, they usually mess with big balls because they are all over the company. No one knows who did which quote and why is it so high or so low and so on, which later on leads to a very low accuracy of these quotes during the project, which further leads to disputes between the clients and the companies. And apart from that, you know, the other problem, well, actually the one that's really hurting a lot of companies right now is that they spend really a lot of time, a lot of time on estimating and quoting projects, and further on, they get no reward for this because even though they spend like even up to 20 hours on a single quote, they don't convert into close deals, into one project. So, that is really, these are It's safe to say they wasted four days because they made an estimate, they made the entire proposal, they sent it to the client, and it doesn't convert. Another story is that, actually, that's actually a very good one. You know, they always say time kills deals, right? Yeah, that is exactly what I'm about to say right now because when you're selling, it's very important to get on the so-called Pole Position in the race for the client because how it works is that if you're trying to make the proposal too perfect and spend two weeks on it and send it to the client, you'll get no response. Because as you were preparing the proposal, there were some other companies that didn't do this proposal as perfectly as you, but they were quicker. So while you are sending the proposal to the client, he's already having chats with three or four companies that sent him the proposal that was less perfect, more high level, but they did it after two or three business days, right? So he's already long-time involved in conversations with them and is not really interested to start from scratch with yet another company. So that is one of the stories that actually I hear very often when doing webinars for quoting for other companies, and that's actually something where they lose a lot of these. So that is one of these stories. Yep, I've definitely been there before myself, hiring a lot of agencies and working with a lot of partners. You know, sometimes you just gotta get stuff done with your organization, and we'll take some of the first proposals to come in and we'll pick out of that batch and go forward with one of them because, you know, things gotta move forward over here in our company. So, I've been on the other side of that too. So, I definitely know how you feel there. We'd love to learn about apropos and how you guys would help solve that problem a little bit better. I know you expanded on it in your initial elevator pitch, but we'd love to learn about the process you guys bring to your customers and potentially other customers in the future to help optimize their proposal process. Sure, would you like me to screen share or should I just describe it? We'd love to actually see the product and just show us what you got. No problem. Just give me a moment, then I'll have to log into my Gmail account. Okay, let's just say we... You should be seeing my screen now. Is that safe to say? Yeah, we can see it now. Okay, cool. So just let me log into some demo account, like for example, this one. And generally, how it works is that let's say that you have a client who wants to develop an event portal, right? Normally, what you would have to do is that you would have to start thinking, "Okay, what does an event portal include?" And what you do here is that you actually create a project. Let's call it "Event Portal." You choose the workflow plans. We know it's a web application, so front-end and back-end, project management, oopsie, and QA. And then you select a template. What is the template? It will be self-explanatory in like 10 seconds from now. Let me just check if I have something related to... Yes, there it is. These are meant to make it easy for anybody to just get up and running because you've already thought through a lot of the potential proposal. Exactly, exactly. But still, you don't have to I think it's the right thing, but you guys, you guys, you know, it's not really a correct way to do it, and they... um, I don't think it's the right thing back in the base, but you know, like, right now and between right now, I can already tell you that we're incorporating AI, and we really have some bits of AI already incorporated or being worked on at the moment. But at that time, it was just a dream of ours, so we know we'll have AI at some point, but we didn't have it at the time, and we didn't really know much about it at that time. But, uh, it worked. I've seen so many same company companies in the same position, really, just, you know, they know they can do it. It's a matter of when and funding and having the resources to do it right. So it's a step-by-step process, but you know that you got to sell the bigger vision right before people want to get on board. It's hard to sell something on a napkin, right? So, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Who knows, you guys, for raising funds there and, uh, continuing forward and building a great company out of this? What would you say for other would-be entrepreneurs that want to maybe follow in your guys' footsteps and launch their own software products someday?" "Sure, so the first thing that I would repeat to everyone is, do not kid yourself. And what I mean by that is that, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs have some sort of wishful thinking, and I'm saying it even from my own perspective because I also had it several years ago. You shouldn't be bending reality to reflect what you wish to believe, right? You should just be real. You should just be real. You know, and what I mean by that is that my very first startup venture, like eight years ago or so or something, it failed because it was a typical wishful thinking. So we developed something that absolutely solved absolutely zero problems, and we wanted the reality to be in the position where we can use it, but it actually wasn't, right? And we spent like one and a half years trying to build it and building it and trying to sell it, and still, you know, kidding ourselves that, yes, it solves problems even in the market, and everything was telling us no. So I would say, do not kid yourself. When you have an idea, first use Google to check if that is something that maybe already exists in some form, and if not, then really do a proof of concept with the smallest investment possible just to verify whether it will make sense to invest further into it. So that is one of the most important advice that I would give to early-stage entrepreneurs." "That's great. I've been there before myself too, especially in the early days. You're so excited to kind of get out there with your idea, and you know everyone wants to be the next Steve Jobs, right? So, of course, everyone will always be thinking like, 'Okay, this is the next big thing.' Yeah, and you're always saying, 'Oh, they just don't get it.' You know, it's... yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You know if they don't get it, it means it's designed incorrectly. Yeah, it's either a product problem or your messaging or positioning it the wrong way, right? So the next thing that happens with so many entrepreneurs that, honestly, I don't think anybody would be a real entrepreneur if they haven't had that problem before. Learn from it the hard way. Like it, I'll grab one. But you know, at the end of the day, you know, um, being successful and even happy. Actually, which is even more important than being successful, I think. Um, it's about, you know, being in business for people, being in business because you're happy doing it. You know, it's not about the money. Um, yeah, go ahead. I was just confirming what you said and adding to it that, in my opinion, money should be the side effect of doing things that you like, that you want to do, and that you do well. But, uh, I always believe that if your only motivation is money, then you're probably not going to get it right. Probably I would be denied by a lot of Wall Street guys, but yeah, that's what I believe in. I'm in New York, I'm surrounded by them here, but um, I'm an entrepreneur through and through. Yourself? Um, never thought about doing the Wall Street thing, but yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I'm big into a story of thinking and things like that, so you know, the more you could understand to become a better person and a better leader, I think you could apply those soft skills and find success in the business world and enjoy the ride while you're doing it, too, which is more important than money. Um, and the more important thing is to be happy; you're ever going to be successful. I mean, both things can go in parallel or simultaneously, but if I had to choose, I'd choose being happy for sure. And I found that the people that really love what they do never really work a day in their life. So, um, but yeah, you know, understanding it from that perspective, from books like this, kind of help get you there, right? And then everything, I think, becomes easy after that. You know, success and all that other stuff that people think they want, but um, you know, they'll appreciate if they get it with the right terms. Um, any last thoughts that you would like to get across about apropos and, uh, what you want people to walk away with from this interview, to know about your product, and why they should pick you over their archaic proposal process that they're using today? Well, primarily because we answer most of your pains related to project estimates, if you're in the software industry, of course. So, if you have any pains related to project estimates and budget tracking, there's a 90% chance that we can address most of them. And that is why you should give it a try. If you don't like it, fine, no problem. We'll get to the point when you like it in like one or two years because our backlog is full of co-features. But it already, it literally, it already helps a lot of companies that are setting a benchmark in this industry. So, yeah, I believe that's a great testimony. And of course, you know, I'm the CEO of the company, so I always say it's great. But you don't have to believe me, but you can check it out and decide for yourself. Awesome, that's great. Yeah, no, we really appreciate your time today, and we appreciate having you guys on the NachoNacho platform as well, too, a place where people can manage, discover, and save on great SaaS tools like apropos. You guys can find it today in our Marketplace at nachonacho.com