Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to another episode of NachoTuesday. Today, we're going to be talking about the biggest SEO trends of 2023. Joining me today is Karsten, who works with MorningScore as the CEO. Without further ado, I'd love to hear an elevator pitch for what MorningScore does and learn a little bit more about you, Karsten. Karsten: Thank you. Let me start by introducing myself. I'm a Danish guy from Europe, and I've been in business for 10 years. I started an agency around high school, which initially didn't go well, but eventually turned out okay. Now there are 50 people in the agency, and I'm a partner, though not actively involved anymore. Through that experience, I realized the significant pain point in SEO, which is the confusion surrounding it. That's why we built MorningScore as a tool to gamify SEO and make it easier. Instead of it being a database like some of our competitors, we focus on turning it into a journey. So that's the pitch, I guess. Andy: That's great. Could you share some key features of Morning Score that you'd like to highlight for our audience? Karsten: Sure. I think the coolest thing about Morning Score is our missions. These are suggested tasks that are quite intelligent. They surprise me sometimes, as they provide concrete instructions on what to do with your SEO. It could be fixing a specific problem or building a particular link. When you complete these missions, you level up, and your "space city" grows in the background. It's all very cool, and you can even make money while playing this game. Andy: That's fascinating. Gamification has been a popular trend, and it resonates with many people. We all grew up playing video games, so it's no surprise. By the way, what game have you been playing recently? Karsten: Oh, I just picked up gaming again recently. I played Doom Eternal last time, and that game is crazy. I shouldn't say this, but I played it during work in the afternoon. There's this phenomenon called "afternoon slump" where you lose energy, and a friend suggested playing an adrenaline-like game. After just 15 minutes of playing Doom Eternal, my energy was back. It's a good tip, actually. Andy: That's an interesting way to regain energy. Sometimes changing your mindset or taking a short break can make a significant difference. Now, let's dive into SEO. It has been around for a long time, and everyone wants to rank high on Google search results. What has changed in the last few years, and are there any strategic opportunities that marketers should be aware of? Karsten: The main thing is that Google has won. If you've followed SEO, you might have heard about black hats and white hats. Black hats try to trick Google, while white hats follow Google's guidelines. Now, what I see everywhere is that experts are relying on Google's official guidelines for their strategies. It may sound boring, but there are still plenty of opportunities, especially because many SEOs don't know how to be a good white hat. So, it's about doing what Google wants, along with some additional tactics like building quality backlinks. Andy: That's interesting. So, what are the things that Google currently values in terms of SEO? Is it all about content? Karsten: Content is indeed crucial, but let's make it more specific. One important aspect is implementing E-A-T (Expertise, Authoritativeness, Trustworthiness). For example, having an author page on your website for articles or landing pages that you want to rank is essential. It allows users to know who wrote the content and LinkedIn profile they could, like, you know, tag me in it. I was like, "Wait, okay, cool." There are side effects to this, you know. What about the technicals? A lot of people, you know, just think it's all about backlinks or just throwing a bunch. Of content up on your site, but a lot of websites actually do a very poor job with some of the technical aspects of SEO, like size images, uh, what? What other pitfalls do you see for a lot of websites that might get them caught and do you know, not ranking well as Google because of it? Yeah, so technical is always a thing. Um, I wouldn't actually say it's the main problem that most websites, the most websites that I come across, they struggle with content and links. So those are the two things they mainly, especially if they're smaller companies, they always struggle with link building, especially. And I mean, like natural good links, that's hard for a lot of people. I actually teach a lot on that on YouTube as well, so I have free links that I teach people how to build and so on. Um, so, but yeah, but yeah, that's a big thing. Um, in terms, if it, if I want to dive into the technical stuff, that's often a problem. It's speed, so not having a fast enough website. And Google has become quite nasty lately. I mean, they're tightening the boat in terms of what they accept as fast enough. Yeah, so now we have to be really fast. I mean, we had issues lately, we just fixed it, and now we're green on Google's, uh, you know, on their score. Um, but they check on a very slow 3G speed on an old mobile, like that's their baseline for mobile speed. And then they say, um, you got to be, the whole site, the main part of the site, gotta load within two and a half seconds on an old 3G connection, old mobile phone. I mean, so that's the, that's the criteria, and so a lot of, yeah, you can easily check that yourself if you Google Google speed test or something like that, you'll find it. Yeah, there's a lot of free speed tests and websites out there as well, too. Does your platform have a speed testing feature? Yeah, it does. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah, it's definitely a great place to start. Um, I guess they're trying to serve to the lowest common denominator there, so, uh, keep that in mind when designing your websites, uh, lowest common denominator there. Yeah, yeah, I guess what else do most businesses get wrong about SEO? They want to go out and they say, "We're gonna. We want to rank higher in Google. We're gonna go do some, get some backlinks or whatever." Um, what do you see most companies do wrong? I mean, obviously, bad backlinks is one of them. Yeah, well, they either don't do anything, so a lot of companies talk about SEO like, "Oh, we gotta improve our SEO," and then, uh, nothing happens, or they, they've okay, so this is my, this might not be something they do wrong, but it's a wrong approach. So, I talked to a lot of people who are scared of SEO, so they don't do it, or they, they're like looking at it and they're analyzing it, but they don't touch it because, like, Yeah, so very clear intent and simply what I call "Money keywords" are where I would start. Even if the competition is a bit higher, you want to build keywords for that. So in my example, it would be something like "rank tracker SEO tool" or "best SEO tool." Those are really hard keywords to rank for, but I should still try because, believe it or not, some people do go on page two or three of Google when they research suppliers. They don't all stay on page one, and those few percentages of people are still potential customers that you should get in front of. So yeah, definitely go for your money keywords first. And then after that, once you've found those main keywords that you think people are looking for when they want to buy your service, you can start going into more research-based keywords. So when people want to have questions answered, that's a great point. Um, what do you see of SEO evolving over the next few years? I mean, now that Google's really dialing it back and making it super simple and streamlined, do you see anything coming up in the next year or two, possibly with all this AI-generated content coming out? Yeah, well, they just had a big conference six days ago, and they're basically going to introduce AI into the search results. Generally, I believe the pie is getting bigger. I don't think there's going to be that much traffic from SEO going away. I think more like the kinds of searches that you would do on Chat GPT today are the ones that Google wants you to do on their service. So a bit more long prompts where you really want a deep answer or whatever it is. Currently, Google is really good for product search, answer search. Basically, you go on Google because you want something done or you want to find something, and AI is not better at that than Google. But Google wants everything. They want both the AI and the search. So what you're going to have to compete for in the future is also the AI answers on some terms. But if you imagine something like "best laptops 2023," the AI can help you answer that question, but you're always going to want to see either the laptops or the websites. And you always want to compete. That's always going to be a competition of optimizing for getting into that search. So I think SEO will change with AI in the coming years, but I don't think the basic principles, the basic needs that people have to find products online or find services online will change in that regard. That's a great point. So don't short Google stock right now. No stock tips here. Yeah, I like that point about the pie getting bigger. You know, there are just more tools out there now for people to get answers. And to your point about AI, it gives you very robust answers that a search result necessarily can't bring forward. But people still like to search for just getting a simple, easy answer, like you mentioned. If you're searching for products or content, it's just so much easier to go to Google already. But if you need open AI to solve a coding problem for you or if you've already completed your clients and need to complete the rest of it, then it's probably a better choice for that. But different use cases. And then you've got to ask yourself, how much money is there in solving code problems? I mean, we're here today because we're talking about generating money for your business through SEO, right? And a lot of people in SEO are afraid right now, but AI is just taking all the stuff. Well, some they are taking some You go to Google, there's a button like a little icon where you can search for images. Then you can search for the images that you upload on pixels that you've seen other people download, and people will have used those for their blogs. Now, this is what I call a Trojan seal because we're invented by my seal. I didn't think about it, it was like came to me afterwards, like wait a minute, I can do this. Maybe feels it gets in there. Yeah, the Trojan seal from the Trojan horse, of course, as well because what you're going to do is you're going to start writing those blogs and saying, "Hey, cool to use my photo, but you know, you got a link to me because this photo is mine." And you're okay, you can use it, but just got a link back to me. And so you get a link just in the caption just below the image, usually in the top of the blog post. I've gotten from some huge websites like culturetrip.com and so on, like some of the biggest travel websites in the world, but also like business blogs because we uploaded a Macbook that got huge. So a lot of PC and business blogs that we got links from. So yeah, wow, that's a nice little hack actually. I don't think a lot of people know about that. No, that's a little one for me, you know, a secret one. Keep that in mind, everyone. So do you do like a reverse Google search to kind of keep tabs on who's using the image and then reach out? Yeah, and you don't need to do it often. You can do it every half a year and you can just reach out. But of course, if you want to do it fresh, you know, you can do it often. It depends how much time you have. Yeah, so everyone keep that in mind. Reverse image search as well, so you can see who's using that photo. Then I love this hack actually. Obviously, using it myself if you don't mind. Yeah, do it, man. I didn't credit in the photo too. Yeah, that would be great. So, I guess what failure comes with any profession, you know, and I love to talk about failure. I'm an entrepreneur myself. I've won, I've lost, and I'd love to chat with other entrepreneurs about some failures that they've had and any great lessons that you've walked away from that with. Yeah, well, the question should be which failures didn't I come across or do myself. But I mean, a recent one, because I'm 32 now, I'm supposed to know better, so just a recent one. When we released Morning Score, the SEO tool we're talking about, we had a six months better, but as always, we got delayed, and the product wasn't good after the six months was over. But I had told my investors we were going to release this and this day, and in my mind, I was like, when I say something, I gotta do it. That was a core value to me. But turns out it was a stupid value because I could just have called my investor. I found out later that he wasn't totally okay with it and asked for a bit more money, so we could wait a bit longer and not release a shitty product. Yeah, so we released a bad product, and we had 4,000 beta users who were okay using the beta and they were testing, they were giving feedback because it was free. But it was not a paid product yet. When using Google, there's a small button or icon to search for images. You can search for images that you upload on Pixels or ones that other people have downloaded. It's like a Trojan seal, a term I came up with later. The idea is to write blog posts and allow others to use your photos as long as they link back to you. This strategy has worked with big travel and business websites, generating links and exposure. It's a little-known hack that can be quite effective. To keep track of who's using your image, you can perform a reverse Google search and reach out to them periodically. It's not necessary to do it frequently, but fresh searches can provide quicker updates. It's a helpful method to monitor and engage with users using your images. Failure is an inherent part of any profession, and I enjoy discussing failures and the lessons learned from them. One recent failure was with the release of Morning Score, our SEO tool. We had a six-month delay, and despite the product not being in good shape, I insisted on releasing it as promised to investors. This led to a subpar product and poor conversion rates. The hype died down, and there was a six-month silence where we struggled to understand why people weren't buying. Eventually, we released version 2.0, which turned things around and saved the company. It was a lesson in not blindly following common advice and the importance of delivering a quality product rather than rushing to meet artificial timelines. Another failure I've experienced in the last five years is following common startup advice that turned out to be wrong. For example, the idea of shipping fast can lead to sinking if the product is not ready. Taking the time to get the product right, gathering feedback from customers, and gradually building momentum can be more beneficial. Challenging common advice has become a priority for me. When it comes to failure, I believe in collecting feedback from customers and actively incorporating it into product development. Customers are a valuable source of information and often willingly provide feedback to help improve the product. This collaborative approach has been beneficial for our company. Morning Score addresses the motivation and assistance gaps in SEO. Many people lack the motivation to tackle SEO tasks, and our tool provides a gamified experience with green check marks, leveling up, and the concept of building a space empire. We strive to create a magical universe of SEO, distinguishing ourselves from competitors that can feel like outdated databases. Morning Score is designed to make SEO accessible, and potential customers can try it free for 14 days without the need for a credit card. We prioritize user-friendliness and have received positive feedback from happy clients who have become SEO experts and achieved significant traffic growth. During the interview, it was apparent that Morning Score has succeeded in demystifying SEO and making it relatable to users. The platform's user-friendly interface, visual representation of improvements, and checklist-style items have made SEO more approachable. It aims to simplify the complexity often associated with SEO, allowing users to understand and implement it with ease. I express my gratitude to Carson for joining the conversation and sharing insights about Morning Score. To those interested in improving their SEO game, I encourage them to explore Morning Score in the Nacho B2B SaaS Marketplace, as it offers a valuable tool and incorporates effective SEO tips discussed during the interview.