That's a great point, Dave. It's essential to leverage data and measure the impact of marketing efforts rather than solely relying on subjective opinions. Thank you for sharing your expertise today and shedding light on the future of AI in marketing.

You're welcome, Andy. It was a pleasure to be here and discuss these topics. Remember, AI is a powerful tool when used to enhance and optimize existing strategies. It involved in managing a company, it's crucial for businesses to proactively reach out to potential customers. As I mentioned earlier, businesses must keep moving forward. So, when it comes to utilizing AI in this process, it's not necessarily about reducing the overall budget. Instead, it's about finding the right allocation in the media mix. This means being able to swiftly pivot or make changes. For example, if a particular platform or campaign is not yielding results, it's important to reallocate resources to a different platform or campaign that is working effectively. This is where AI can assist in decision-making and optimization.

That's great. Now, what other advice would you offer to small business owners who want to continue growing their businesses during uncertain economic times, aside from focusing solely on marketing expenses?

There are a couple of things I would suggest. Firstly, in general, if you aim to grow, you need to invest in sales and marketing. Both functions are essential, and deploying capital into these areas is necessary for growth. Understanding where your investments are going and evaluating the efforts, returns, and effectiveness of different teams and functions is crucial.

From a financial standpoint, it's important to consider investments that can increase your output or capacity, depending on the nature of your business. When you aim to grow, you have several options: raising prices, selling more products/services, or cutting costs. Operational efficiencies play a significant role in this, even beyond marketing. If you can save a dollar in expenses, that directly contributes to your earnings, whereas generating an extra dollar in sales entails associated costs.

Therefore, optimizing your expenses and striving for lean operations is important. If there are investments that can enhance your operational efficiency, such as better equipment, machinery, or technology tools, it's worthwhile to allocate funds to these areas. This optimization directly impacts your bottom line without compromising your ability to generate revenue.

Speaking from the perspective of a spend management platform, I fully agree with these considerations. Finding ways to be cost-efficient, such as negotiating with vendors, maintaining legacy rates, or downsizing accounts, can all contribute to achieving bottom line efficiency without sacrificing marketing efforts.

Additionally, it's worth noting that, on average, companies tend to waste around 30% of their software expenditure. As businesses scale, this amount can become significant. That's where a solution like our spend management platform, Nacho, comes into play. It allows you to have visibility and control over all your subscriptions in one place, enabling effective monitoring and management.

Having visibility into all aspects of your business is crucial, and as someone involved in managing a company, I'm sure you can appreciate the importance of this. Having clear visibility into numbers, analytics, and other relevant data is crucial for making informed decisions. You mentioned the importance of KPIs and investing in the right channels for growth. On the flip side, are there any overrated KPIs that many companies tend to focus on excessively and shouldn't prioritize?

Certainly, one overrated KPI that comes to mind is the number of impressions or vanity metrics. It's common to hear statements like, "Our ad reached a huge number of people," which may be great for brand awareness. However, it's essential to understand that the true value lies in seeing those results translate into tangible outcomes over time. For instance, social content may receive numerous likes or shares, but establishing a direct connection between such engagement and actual business results can be challenging.

I completely agree. Now, what marketing tactic do you think is currently overrated and less effective than it used to be?

Surprisingly, email marketing has become somewhat overrated. We've observed a decline in transaction rates year over year, with businesses experiencing a one percent drop in conversion rates and revenue generated from email campaigns. It's not that email marketing lacks potential; rather, it's the sheer volume of emails being sent without proper audience segmentation that dilutes the conversion rate. People receive an increasing number of emails, but not all of them are relevant to their needs. While email can still be effective for nurturing customer relationships and promoting loyalty, relying solely on blasting generic content is unlikely to yield favorable results.

That's a sentiment I've heard echoed by other founders as well. Lack of personalization and the influx of generic emails have led to reduced engagement. Personalized and targeted approaches that address the specific needs and challenges of recipients are crucial to stand out in the sea of emails.

Absolutely. Many founders I've interviewed also highlight the importance of personalization in emails. With tools available to enrich data and personalize content, it has become easier for everyone to send emails. As a result, people have become accustomed to ignoring generic emails unless they genuinely address their individual needs, demonstrate an understanding of their company, and provide a compelling solution. The body of the email, as well as the subject line, need to be personalized and relevant for a higher response rate.

Indeed, personalization and relevancy are key. Gong.io has shared some insightful thought leadership on email best practices, analyzing subject lines and other elements. For those interested, there are valuable studies available on this topic.

Email marketing is continually evolving. Are there any underrated marketing goals or KPIs that companies often overlook but can leverage for their advantage?

I'll answer this question in two parts. Firstly, due to economic uncertainty and inflation, we're witnessing a lot of shopping around. Transaction rates on websites have decreased, indicating that fewer visitors are converting into customers. People are exploring alternatives, frequently returning to pages multiple times before making a purchase. In light of this, tactics that emphasize social proof have shown promise. Influencer marketing and affiliate programs, where referral partners come into play, have experienced increased adoption. When individuals seek alternatives, they often turn to friends, social media, or trusted sources. Referrals, affiliations, and even product review platforms like G2 or Capterra have proven valuable during these times.

That's a valid point. In a marketing landscape saturated with ads and sponsored content, trust and transparency become paramount. People seek validation from their peers or individuals similar to them when deciding which products or services to invest in.

Exactly. Trust and validation from peers play a significant role in decision-making, especially in a world where advertisements are omnipresent. Transparent recommendations and genuine user experiences hold more weight in establishing trust and guiding purchasing choices. As well, 100. And when we talk about influencers, you know, I think there's that common misperception of, you know, it's the Instagram account with, you know, 10 million followers and you know, a celebrity. Whereas, you know, where we actually see a lot of efficacy from an influencer standpoint is very niche, more micro-focused community-based influencers, you know, the person that's seen as a subject matter expert in home renovation or, you know, this person, this micro-influencer that does personal financial planning is a way better influencer in terms of bang for the buck than getting, like, Snoop Dogg to, you know, promote your mortgage product. Definitely, yeah. And, uh, you know, for software companies, like a lot of software reviewers maybe on YouTube could be, you know, good people to go after, you know, they might have a hundred thousand, two hundred thousand followers. Um, you know, a lot of them might do it for free, just they need content, right? Um, again, once you get to those upper tiers, and they can get really, really expensive. No knock on Snoop, I like him. Yeah, yeah, I love what we talked about. Now, um, but, uh, yeah, I guess the key to analyzing those people too is the amount of, you know, is it your niche audience that you're trying to go after and look at the engagement, right? Do they get a lot of comments on their posts? Do they get a lot of views relative to the amount of followers that they have? That could really help, you know, tell you if that's a great micro-influencer to work with. That said, what other marketing and advertising channels perform really well during a recession, in your opinion?

Yeah, I think, and this one's a little bit out there, but what actually, again going back to the idea of people looking for alternatives and shopping around from a pricing standpoint or analyzing their expenses, is competitor campaigns. Depending on where you sell and what you sell, in general, running competitor campaigns and what I mean by that is bidding on keywords such as the brand name of your competitors or specific words that they advertise against or bid on. But typically, those are very expensive and you don't have a good quality score and it's generally seen as an ancillary tactic. And I would still say it's an ancillary tactic even in uncertain times. But experimenting with that right now would be an interesting time to do it in the sense that, you know, in a recession, people are looking for alternatives, there's price sensitivity, there's competition. This could be the time to try those campaigns, at least to see the efficacy of them, in my opinion. But, you know, again, that's just my general thought. Don't, uh, because, uh, you know, a lot of these we talked about some brands scaling back on marketing, some of our competitors might be scaling back, this could be a good tactic to get in front of their prospective customers, um, and take advantage of the economic downturn and, you know, get a better return on ad spend for yourself. 100%. And if nothing else, if you can't engage in that kind of competition and price battle, um, I would at least make sure, if nothing else, your brand terms are safe and well-guarded from a bid strategy perspective and from an optimization standpoint, so that, you know, if nothing else, when somebody types in your name, you're still showing up and showing up near the top. Well, thanks for coming on today, Dave. What we learned was very insightful. Thanks for having me on, Andy, it was my pleasure.