Do you see a lot of the budgets shifting? Is it getting more expensive for PPC, especially with Google Search Ads or Microsoft Search Ads, or do you see with more options now that the price might actually go down for PPC?

That's really powerful. There are platforms like 6sense that will, in some cases, identify and provide the email and the person. It sounds like you guys do something similar.

Yes. And what we're working on now as an R&D project is to even put that back into an audience. You can target them in an audience or through email or however you want to, whether it's through sales or marketing.

That's really powerful. So how are people leveraging automation and AI, and how should people incorporate that into their modern PPC strategy?

The reality is that most companies are going to struggle to develop a use case for a lot of AI. But all of the platforms, whether it's Meta, TikTok, Microsoft, or Google, are all developing AI quite a bit into how they serve ads and how they write the ads. For example, with Microsoft, they own inventory across a wide plethora of assets. They just bought Activision, they've got all these gaming things, they've got stuff on all their desktops, and trying to buy that is very difficult. So the way they're using AI is through a product called PMAX, similar to Google's PMAX, where you basically profile what kind of customer you're looking for, and they use that with their AI to automatically match all the different types of customers you're looking for and then deliver those ads across all these channels that you could never manually do. We're working on AI tools to do things like how to allocate budget across platforms or how to write ads. I think a lot of people can use AI in content creation. That's a straightforward one where you take your content and you put it into an AI engine, then it chops it up into the ideal content for each of the different platforms because content for TikTok will be different from content for LinkedIn. So that's probably one of the more common uses for AI at a user level.

And maybe like data analysis on the back end too, looking for trends and patterns in the data that you're getting from your campaigns?

Yes. If you've got it organized well enough that you can feed it in, then yes, that definitely is good.

So how do people pick between Google or Microsoft? Should you advertise on both, or is there a preference you should have if you're a certain type of business?

I mean, we'll typically see the performance on Microsoft be maybe 20% up to 40% better than Google, just with lower volumes. So depending on how big your budgets are, we would go in and say maybe do 50/50 and see how it goes and then move money around based on performance or volume. If you're a big spender and you can buy all the traffic on Microsoft, then you might end up spending 80% on Google just because you can't buy any more on Microsoft. But a rule of thumb is we'd go in at 50/50 or 60/40 and see where you get to. Particularly with B2B, because Microsoft does own LinkedIn, if you want to advertise to B2B audiences, like certain job roles, they've got the LinkedIn audiences which Google doesn't have.

And can you target the LinkedIn audiences outside of LinkedIn too, because I know LinkedIn PPC is really expensive?

Yes, on Microsoft Advertising, you can target LinkedIn audiences directly in the Microsoft platform.

I think a lot of people don't know that. A lot of people just think of Google, but it sounds like Microsoft might be a really big opportunity for a lot of people who might not have considered it in the past.

Yes. We've actually got a number of clients and partners we work with that have tested the performance enough and are very quantitative-driven. So they basically go and say, "We're going to do everything on Microsoft and then spend whatever we can't spend there on Google." They might even end up spending 70% on Microsoft and 30% on Google. That's your top 1% of advertisers, but there is that opportunity.

Very interesting. When should you review your PPC campaigns? When should you consider a pivot if your strategy isn't working?

In any natural rollout of PPC, the first three months you are just collecting data. A lot of times you have to set up your tracking, make sure your tracking works, and set up your KPIs. And then, eventually, you'll start seeing what works. You define like, "Hey, I can pay $100 for this kind of lead," or, "This one is worth $2,000 to me, and I'm happy to pay up to 25%, so I'd be happy to buy that one for, say, $500." And then it's just a matter of how many you can get at that price. It's a very dynamic business. When you're first getting started, you're going to be in it all the time. The first three months are pretty intense. And then once you start working out the metrics, you can figure out how often you check this or optimize this. You can't look at it too much because you need the data to collect. But then once you've got significant enough data, you can then make decisions and go from there. And there's always testing. The best way we've seen to test is to just create a spreadsheet and say, "Okay, I'm changing this title or I'm changing this copy. I'm changing these keywords. This is my expected result." And then you come back after a week or two weeks and look at the data and say, "Okay, I thought it was going to improve, but it actually went worse. I'm going to revert that change," or, "Yes, I thought it was going to improve, and it did improve, so I'm going to keep the change." If you just keep a log of all the changes, it's a lot better than making emotional decisions and then it goes somewhere and you don't know why or what happened. So if you want to get analytical, that's the best way I've seen. Just keep a spreadsheet with the change, expected change, the date, and the date you're going to review it. Then you go check it and either keep it or revert it.

It sounds like you have to be really meticulous and very patient.

Yes, because it's a strange business. You've got a lot of technical issues that could go wrong, so you've got to get tracking and all this kind of stuff right. And then you've got to be creative and have the right copy and content. And then it's very mathematically driven. It's three different disciplines, which is why it's often really hard for somebody to pick up if they don't have a team around them. That's why it often works well to go to an agency that has teams of people that can solve these issues. We've got a tracking team to support this because even getting tracking to work is fundamental, and some of the problems there are extremely difficult to solve. Most IT people don't know how to solve these kinds of internet tracking issues. So as long as you find the support, it can go well.

So it sounds like there are a lot of benefits to working through you guys. Could you maybe highlight some of the benefits of working with Denius Insights and your platform overall, not to mention the agency relationships that you guys already have?

Yes. If companies manage things in-house, then we'll support them and give them a platform to automatically report on all their spending, traffic, and different things. We've got bidding engines to help automate things, we've got competitive intelligence, SEO tools, and all this. So if they're managing in-house, when they have those questions, our customer success teams can help support those. And then if they need somebody to actually operate it for them, then we can recommend agencies that we work with that we know do a good job in a certain sector, and then we support the agency that then supports them.

Could you maybe highlight more how Denius uses data to highlight underperforming campaigns or keywords, and maybe unlock hidden opportunities that they might not have seen in the data themselves?

Yes. We've got tools where you can run a lot of reports in the platforms, but it can be extremely cumbersome to run all that data. So we've got tools that will analyze it from a number of different angles and then pull out and just show, "Hey, here are all these different sources of traffic. Here are the conversions you're getting. Here's the traffic you're getting." You can sort by lowest performing and highest performing, and then you can click a button and automatically stop buying certain traffic based on the performance. You have to take all these things and compress them and then give them in a way that's easy to consume or digest. That's typically how we'll write these things to recommend. In general, when managing things, you want to look at the top 10% and the bottom 10%. If you can figure out what's not working in the bottom 10%, you cut it or fix it. Whatever is at the top 10%, you do more of that. The middle 80% you don't even have to worry too much about because it'll sort itself out over time if you're taking from the top and feeding it to the rest. Once you've dealt with one bottom, the next bottom will come, and you just kind of do that, and that's how you typically manage large portfolios.

That's a really smart strategy you've got there. What about social media, like TikTok or Meta ads? Do you see those as valuable for B2B marketers too? A lot of people think that you can't target business people on TikTok or Facebook, but with the amount of data and the profiles that you could build for people, it definitely is possible. What are your thoughts on those channels?

Yes, it's definitely possible. It's a different medium and a different way of talking to them. LinkedIn is a little more obvious for B2B. But if you can build out your audience right and figure out how to reach those people, then it can be quite effective. We've actually found that on Meta with B2B, when we build custom audiences and advertise in Meta, you can get leads at about 10% of the cost of direct PPC. So you basically take all your targets, build their custom audience, load it up into Meta, and then advertise just to those people. They match it to the email address. You might not match everything perfectly, but the return is incredible. And you can do that to all of the different platforms. So for B2B, that's kind of the most efficient way we've found. You can still find groups and all this, but if you build your own custom audiences, that's the most efficient we've seen on Meta, TikTok, and the social media platforms.

The more targeted, the better. How did the privacy changes affect advertising, like cookie deprecation for instance? It sounds like there are still ways around that to really be able to identify people and retarget them.

The cookie deprecation had been discussed for two or three years, and Google started to implement it. But there was so much uproar in the industry, and it was so pro-Google that the antitrust guys started getting involved, and they actually backed out of that. But there have been huge amounts of changes. The consent modes and allowing consent and all of this have had massive implications. You basically lose about 30% of your visibility into traffic and tracking. So it gets a little more opaque. Sometimes it makes sense to go back to some manual out-of-system tracking just to verify if the tracking is working or not. But generally, you just kind of work out what the averages are. You get a little less precise, and you target as best you can.

So do you know of any other trends that people should be aware of this year in advertising that they should really double down on? Obviously, we talked about AI. Anything else in PPC that they should be aware of?

I think for B2B SaaS, there are these guys, I don't know if you've come across SaaS.

Yes, our CEO loves going to their webinars.

They're great. They've got a really nice system of how you do B2B marketing. It's a combination of cold email and then building your audiences, loading those audiences into your general PPC. But then you do this audience-based PPC, and then you see who's interacting with you, and then you put your SDR teams on there. Getting that mix right is important. What we've seen is that companies that try to rely only on PPC, because it's so expensive, find it very difficult to make it work well. So you need to have a more complex marketing strategy. We would say in B2B, particularly, you want to have this combination of PPC on keywords that you're targeting, but then you want to do cold email outreach, and then you want to use that same cold email outreach and load that into your audience list and advertise in those audiences in all the media channels. Then you've got a much better marketing and sales approach to using PPC and digital media.

The other thing that we've found incredibly good is intent data. We've done a partnership with Bombora. Typically, big corporations will pay like seven figures for that data. And it's almost the data before it gets to PPC, like what are people researching before they go and search? So we've actually built Bomba's intent data into our platform. Companies can set up their exact ideal customer profile, and then we can deliver them who's in the market every week. We even have free trials for that. So I'd say for that, you might take a look at intent data and then all these other forms of PPC on top of that.

And for everybody listening, intent data could be something like they recently fundraised, and you could target them for part of their GTM (Go-to-Market) plans now that you know they have budgets and they're probably looking to grow faster. Stuff like that. So it sounds like, yes, for B2B, you definitely need a lot of touchpoints, a lot of visibility. Don't expect overnight results from any of your campaigns. And have a lot of patience, and then you have to be meticulous with the data to kind of find the trends and see what's working. I also really like your idea of the top 10% and the bottom 10%. I do think that's a great strategy to kind of optimize your campaigns and eventually get to a place where most of your campaigns are performing.

Yes. Very cool. So where can people learn more about Denius and sign up for your services?

That's key. It's that experience and the touchpoints that you guys have to be able to understand what works best for people. B2B advertising and marketing, in general, can be really expensive if you don't know what you're doing.

Yes. The other cool thing in B2B is that we've got partnerships with some production houses. We can buy TV commercials on the streaming platforms—premium streaming like Disney Plus, Netflix, Fox—with no minimums. So if you load up your audience with exactly who you want to target, and then you put a TV commercial on Netflix and all these other ones, they're like, "Wow, those guys must be big. I want to talk to them." And you can spend a few thousand on it. If you don't know how to produce it, we've got production houses in London that we have agreements with that can produce it for 5K. So that's another tip that some of our B2B agencies that have worked particularly in the U.S. market have found. Those really laser-targeted B2B television commercials have had really good success.

Yes. You can do audience lists, you can do postcodes, you can…

Good morning, everybody, and good afternoon to those in London. Today, I have Nate Burke, the founder and CEO of Denius, here to showcase what his company does.

Denius is a sales and marketing platform that covers the entire internet layer to help companies, particularly small to medium-sized businesses, understand their whole digital presence. We specialize in pay-per-click (PPC) and internet traffic and how to understand that traffic. In the industry, we're known as Microsoft Advertising's largest channel partner globally, and we support over a thousand agencies and all their underlying clients on the Microsoft ad channel as well.

Wow. What are some of the biggest PPC shifts and marketing trends you're seeing these days, and what are some of the biggest mistakes that companies make?

The biggest shift now, obviously, is the change to so many people using large language models. So you see a pretty big shift in traffic, from both organic and paid, in how people research information. This is making things move more now than they have in the last 10 to 15 years. We get a lot of questions about how to get into the AI results. That's one area where Microsoft has a pretty big advantage because if you want to get your products, services, or anything into Copilot, it's done through Microsoft Advertising, as they're leading the way in a lot of those areas. Chat GPT and a lot of those other ones don't have any sort of advertising yet.

I wasn't aware that Microsoft did, actually. So they have a way that you can advertise within the LLM?

Yes. They've integrated Copilot into all their Microsoft products, and Copilot has native advertising from Microsoft Advertising. It performs quite well. We would hypothesize that if these do extend out—like Chat GPT and its relationship with Microsoft—you would think that if they were going to offer ads, they'd use Microsoft as a partner. We'll see how that goes. But in general, with Copilot going across all Microsoft products—the Office Suite, their browsers, all their products—you've got over a billion users, and within the Copilot results is advertising for Microsoft.

Do you see a lot of the budgets shifting? Is it getting more expensive for PPC, especially with Google Search Ads or Microsoft Search Ads, or do you see with more options now that the price might actually go down for PPC?

Typically, the price never goes down for PPC, unfortunately. So it's all about getting more efficient, getting better tracking, learning how to test better, and so forth. We've been investing heavily in figuring out how to do that, particularly when you look at e-commerce advertising, which has certain product strategies, and B2B advertising, which is quite different. I think your audience is more B2B. With B2B, we see that with all this new technology, we can now work on technology to allow B2B companies to build custom audiences. They can take, let's say, if they're selling to real estate companies, doctors, or high school principals across the U.S., they can either integrate their CRM data or build an audience of exactly those people and then advertise across all media channels to exactly those people, whether it's Google, TikTok, and match to those people and even do streaming videos on Netflix or Disney Plus. We're working on giving normal companies the ability to advertise exactly to the people they want. We're seeing results of about 40% to 400% better yield on their money in those ways.

So that's how we're seeing how to get better results, even if the price is high on a click. If you can just find those 20,000 people in the world that you want to talk to and only show them your ads, you would actually pay a lot more than that.

I feel like a lot of people just don't know how to do the targeting right, so they just kind of "spray and pray," and that's why their costs are so high and the ROI is so low.

Absolutely. It is very difficult. The big brands can afford to "spray and pray," but not normal businesses.

So PPC is definitely still worth it. It's just more nuanced now. You have to be a lot more targeted to get some value out of it. You can't just try to show up for every keyword on Google or Microsoft ads and hope you get a good ROI for it.

Yes. And you have to really work out whether you have the expertise to do that internally or if you need to find an agency that has that expertise and partner with them. It's a lot more specialized these days, so a lot of times it's better to just work with an expert.

Yes. And finding that expert can be hard. We had so many companies asking us how to do this, "Can you help us or do you know somebody?" Because we work with so many agencies, we kind of know who's good at B2B, who's good at B2C, who's good at big budgets, small budgets, and what their fee structures are. So we've actually set up a matchmaking program. We interview the client's needs and then we match them to the right kind of agency that they're looking for in terms of expertise and fee structure, and whether they're good at legal, automotive, retail, that kind of thing.

Do you see a difference between SMB and enterprise advertising? We talked about how enterprises can "spray and pray" a little bit more. They might be doing more brand awareness campaigns, whereas SMBs, if I'm not mistaken, need to be a lot more hyper-targeted and specialized in how they're focusing their ad campaigns.

The problems are the same for both. It's just the resources are a lot smaller. The data is different. When optimizing campaigns, the more data you have, the easier it is because you can just see what works and what doesn't. When you have a small budget, you have to get all the technical setup, the tracking, the targeting, and then look at the data and try to get the results. It's a lot harder for SMBs than it is for the big advertisers as a result. So you have to be really good and precise on it. You need to really identify the core niche, get that to work, get it running well, and then expand out from there.

Good point. How can businesses identify which keywords or campaigns are really performing well? What kind of KPIs should they be looking for?

It depends on the type of company, obviously. If you have a really short sales cycle, then you can just look at revenue. For example, if people are buying within a week or two, or a day or two, like in retail, you can do that. When you get into B2B, it gets a lot more complicated if sales cycles are six, 12, or 24 months.

So what you want to do is look at the leading indicators. When they come to your site, what's the bounce rate? What's the time on site? Did they fill out a form? You need to work to track those things. You can often see, based on the keyword, the traffic, and how much time they spend on your site, whether something is working or not. Then you have to figure out, "Am I buying the wrong keyword, or am I explaining my service wrong?" You can do the testing on those very early indicators because it takes so long to go down the sales funnel and turn into a customer. I've always said that 50% of it is technical analysis and 50% of it is just getting the business case right so the CFO can understand it and you know what your investment is leading to. You also need to integrate your sales and marketing efforts so that you make sure you're all working together smoothly. It's different if it's a sales-driven company or a product-led growth company where everything happens on the website.

So a lot of B2Bs could expect that a customer might not sign up or purchase anything on the first day, but getting them into your marketing funnel is just as important. Now you could get them in your newsletter, educate them, and hit them with retargeting ads. So over the period of their buyer journey, where maybe they don't have a problem today, but maybe a month or three months later, you're top of mind when they're looking to make a move and actually purchase a product or sign up for a subscription.

Absolutely. It takes about 15 to 20 touchpoints typically to turn a prospect into a customer over a period of time, which, again, three to six months is pretty typical.

So don't expect overnight results in B2B advertising.

No, absolutely not. B2B is quite tough. We've developed tools as well to identify things like when people come to your website, click on an ad, and spend two minutes, but you don't know who they are. Google Analytics will tell you, "Somebody from Boston was on my site for two minutes, and they looked at these three pages." That's great, but you don't know who they are. So we've developed technology to do a reverse IP lookup, match it to the company domain, and then integrate that data into Apollo. We can give the sales teams data like, "Hey, somebody from this company searched your website, they spent this time going through it, and here is their VP of sales' email and phone number. Maybe give them a call and see if he's interested or in the market."

That's really powerful. There are platforms like 6sense that will, in some cases, identify and provide the email and the person. It sounds like you guys do something similar.

Yes. And what we're working on now as an R&D project is to even put that back into an audience. You can target them in an audience or through email or however you want to, whether it's through sales or marketing.

That's really powerful. So how are people leveraging automation and AI, and how should people incorporate that into their modern PPC strategy?

The reality is that most companies are going to struggle to develop a use case for a lot of AI. But all of the platforms, whether it's Meta, TikTok, Microsoft, or Google, are all developing AI quite a bit into how they serve ads and how they write the ads. For example, with Microsoft, they own inventory across a wide plethora of assets. They just bought Activision, they've got all these gaming things, they've got stuff on all their desktops, and trying to buy that is very difficult. So the way they're using AI is through a product called PMAX, similar to Google's PMAX, where you basically profile what kind of customer you're looking for, and they use that with their AI to automatically match all the different types of customers you're looking for and then deliver those ads across all these channels that you could never manually do. We're working on AI tools to do things like how to allocate budget across platforms or how to write ads. I think a lot of people can use AI in content creation. That's a straightforward one where you take your content and you put it into an AI engine, then it chops it up into the ideal content for each of the different platforms because content for TikTok will be different from content for LinkedIn. So that's probably one of the more common uses for AI at a user level.

And maybe like data analysis on the back end too, looking for trends and patterns in the data that you're getting from your campaigns?

Yes. If you've got it organized well enough that you can feed it in, then yes, that definitely is good.

So how do people pick between Google or Microsoft? Should you advertise on both, or is there a preference you should have if you're a certain type of business?

I mean, we'll typically see the performance on Microsoft be maybe 20% up to 40% better than Google, just with lower volumes. So depending on how big your budgets are, we would go in and say maybe do 50/50 and see how it goes and then move money around based on performance or volume. If you're a big spender and you can buy all the traffic on Microsoft, then you might end up spending 80% on Google just because you can't buy any more on Microsoft. But a rule of thumb is we'd go in at 50/50 or 60/40 and see where you get to. Particularly with B2B, because Microsoft does own LinkedIn, if you want to advertise to B2B audiences, like certain job roles, they've got the LinkedIn audiences which Google doesn't have.

And can you target the LinkedIn audiences outside of LinkedIn too, because I know LinkedIn PPC is really expensive?

Yes, on Microsoft Advertising, you can target LinkedIn audiences directly in the Microsoft platform.

I think a lot of people don't know that. A lot of people just think of Google, but it sounds like Microsoft might be a really big opportunity for a lot of people who might not have considered it in the past.

Yes. We've actually got a number of clients and partners we work with that have tested the performance enough and are very quantitative-driven. So they basically go and say, "We're going to do everything on Microsoft and then spend whatever we can't spend there on Google." They might even end up spending 70% on Microsoft and 30% on Google. That's your top 1% of advertisers, but there is that opportunity.

Very interesting. When should you review your PPC campaigns? When should you consider a pivot if your strategy isn't working?

In any natural rollout of PPC, the first three months you are just collecting data. A lot of times you have to set up your tracking, make sure your tracking works, and set up your KPIs. And then, eventually, you'll start seeing what works. You define like, "Hey, I can pay $100 for this kind of lead," or, "This one is worth $2,000 to me, and I'm happy to pay up to 25%, so I'd be happy to buy that one for, say, $500." And then it's just a matter of how many you can get at that price. It's a very dynamic business. When you're first getting started, you're going to be in it all the time. The first three months are pretty intense. And then once you start working out the metrics, you can figure out how often you check this or optimize this. You can't look at it too much because you need the data to collect. But then once you've got significant enough data, you can then make decisions and go from there. And there's always testing. The best way we've seen to test is to just create a spreadsheet and say, "Okay, I'm changing this title or I'm changing this copy. I'm changing these keywords. This is my expected result." And then you come back after a week or two weeks and look at the data and say, "Okay, I thought it was going to improve, but it actually went worse. I'm going to revert that change," or, "Yes, I thought it was going to improve, and it did improve, so I'm going to keep the change." If you just keep a log of all the changes, it's a lot better than making emotional decisions and then it goes somewhere and you don't know why or what happened. So if you want to get analytical, that's the best way I've seen. Just keep a spreadsheet with the change, expected change, the date, and the date you're going to review it. Then you go check it and either keep it or revert it.

It sounds like you have to be really meticulous and very patient.

Yes, because it's a strange business. You've got a lot of technical issues that could go wrong, so you've got to get tracking and all this kind of stuff right. And then you've got to be creative and have the right copy and content. And then it's very mathematically driven. It's three different disciplines, which is why it's often really hard for somebody to pick up if they don't have a team around them. That's why it often works well to go to an agency that has teams of people that can solve these issues. We've got a tracking team to support this because even getting tracking to work is fundamental, and some of the problems there are extremely difficult to solve. Most IT people don't know how to solve these kinds of internet tracking issues. So as long as you find the support, it can go well.

So it sounds like there are a lot of benefits to working through you guys. Could you maybe highlight some of the benefits of working with Denius Insights and your platform overall, not to mention the agency relationships that you guys already have?

Yes. If companies manage things in-house, then we'll support them and give them a platform to automatically report on all their spending, traffic, and different things. We've got bidding engines to help automate things, we've got competitive intelligence, SEO tools, and all this. So if they're managing in-house, when they have those questions, our customer success teams can help support those. And then if they need somebody to actually operate it for them, then we can recommend agencies that we work with that we know do a good job in a certain sector, and then we support the agency that then supports them.

Could you maybe highlight more how Denius uses data to highlight underperforming campaigns or keywords, and maybe unlock hidden opportunities that they might not have seen in the data themselves?

Yes. We've got tools where you can run a lot of reports in the platforms, but it can be extremely cumbersome to run all that data. So we've got tools that will analyze it from a number of different angles and then pull out and just show, "Hey, here are all these different sources of traffic. Here are the conversions you're getting. Here's the traffic you're getting." You can sort by lowest performing and highest performing, and then you can click a button and automatically stop buying certain traffic based on the performance. You have to take all these things and compress them and then give them in a way that's easy to consume or digest. That's typically how we'll write these things to recommend. In general, when managing things, you want to look at the top 10% and the bottom 10%. If you can figure out what's not working in the bottom 10%, you cut it or fix it. Whatever is at the top 10%, you do more of that. The middle 80% you don't even have to worry too much about because it'll sort itself out over time if you're taking from the top and feeding it to the rest. Once you've dealt with one bottom, the next bottom will come, and you just kind of do that, and that's how you typically manage large portfolios.

That's a really smart strategy you've got there. What about social media, like TikTok or Meta ads? Do you see those as valuable for B2B marketers too? A lot of people think that you can't target business people on TikTok or Facebook, but with the amount of data and the profiles that you could build for people, it definitely is possible. What are your thoughts on those channels?

Yes, it's definitely possible. It's a different medium and a different way of talking to them. LinkedIn is a little more obvious for B2B. But if you can build out your audience right and figure out how to reach those people, then it can be quite effective. We've actually found that on Meta with B2B, when we build custom audiences and advertise in Meta, you can get leads at about 10% of the cost of direct PPC. So you basically take all your targets, build their custom audience, load it up into Meta, and then advertise just to those people. They match it to the email address. You might not match everything perfectly, but the return is incredible. And you can do that to all of the different platforms. So for B2B, that's kind of the most efficient way we've found. You can still find groups and all this, but if you build your own custom audiences, that's the most efficient we've seen on Meta, TikTok, and the social media platforms.

The more targeted, the better. How did the privacy changes affect advertising, like cookie deprecation for instance? It sounds like there are still ways around that to really be able to identify people and retarget them.

The cookie deprecation had been discussed for two or three years, and Google started to implement it. But there was so much uproar in the industry, and it was so pro-Google that the antitrust guys started getting involved, and they actually backed out of that. But there have been huge amounts of changes. The consent modes and allowing consent and all of this have had massive implications. You basically lose about 30% of your visibility into traffic and tracking. So it gets a little more opaque. Sometimes it makes sense to go back to some manual out-of-system tracking just to verify if the tracking is working or not. But generally, you just kind of work out what the averages are. You get a little less precise, and you target as best you can.

So do you know of any other trends that people should be aware of this year in advertising that they should really double down on? Obviously, we talked about AI. Anything else in PPC that they should be aware of?

I think for B2B SaaS, there are these guys, I don't know if you've come across SaaS.

Yes, our CEO loves going to their webinars.

They're great. They've got a really nice system of how you do B2B marketing. It's a combination of cold email and then building your audiences, loading those audiences into your general PPC. But then you do this audience-based PPC, and then you see who's interacting with you, and then you put your SDR teams on there. Getting that mix right is important. What we've seen is that companies that try to rely only on PPC, because it's so expensive, find it very difficult to make it work well. So you need to have a more complex marketing strategy. We would say in B2B, particularly, you want to have this combination of PPC on keywords that you're targeting, but then you want to do cold email outreach, and then you want to use that same cold email outreach and load that into your audience list and advertise in those audiences in all the media channels. Then you've got a much better marketing and sales approach to using PPC and digital media.

The other thing that we've found incredibly good is intent data. We've done a partnership with Bombora. Typically, big corporations will pay like seven figures for that data. And it's almost the data before it gets to PPC, like what are people researching before they go and search? So we've actually built Bomba's intent data into our platform. Companies can set up their exact ideal customer profile, and then we can deliver them who's in the market every week. We even have free trials for that. So I'd say for that, you might take a look at intent data and then all these other forms of PPC on top of that.

And for everybody listening, intent data could be something like they recently fundraised, and you could target them for part of their GTM (Go-to-Market) plans now that you know they have budgets and they're probably looking to grow faster. Stuff like that. So it sounds like, yes, for B2B, you definitely need a lot of touchpoints, a lot of visibility. Don't expect overnight results from any of your campaigns. And have a lot of patience, and then you have to be meticulous with the data to kind of find the trends and see what's working. I also really like your idea of the top 10% and the bottom 10%. I do think that's a great strategy to kind of optimize your campaigns and eventually get to a place where most of your campaigns are performing.

Yes. Very cool. So where can people learn more about Denius and sign up for your services?

If you go to our website, https://www.google.com/search?q=denius.com, or my LinkedIn or email, nate.burke@https://www.google.com/search?q=denius.com, I'm happy to respond. We do have free trials, so you can set up a free trial, and our customer success team works really closely with our clients. We're just trying to figure out how to make you successful, and if you're successful, then you'll pay us over time. If you're not, you leave. We work quite hard to get visibility into your data and the strategies, and because we have experience working with tens of thousands of companies, we generally know the basic playbooks of, "Hey, this type of thing should work for your type of company." Or, "We've seen that if you're just going to spend a few hundred thousand on LinkedIn ads, you might want to mix that around to cover your customer a little better than just one channel." And so forth. So I'm happy to help figure out what works to get the foundation set up and then automate all this reporting because we give you the ability to get reports back every day, every week automatically instead of having to try to pull all the data down from all these different systems, and that saves a lot of time as well.

That's key. It's that experience and the touchpoints that you guys have to be able to understand what works best for people. B2B advertising and marketing, in general, can be really expensive if you don't know what you're doing.

Yes. The other cool thing in B2B is that we've got partnerships with some production houses. We can buy TV commercials on the streaming platforms—premium streaming like Disney Plus, Netflix, Fox—with no minimums. So if you load up your audience with exactly who you want to target, and then you put a TV commercial on Netflix and all these other ones, they're like, "Wow, those guys must be big. I want to talk to them." And you can spend a few thousand on it. If you don't know how to produce it, we've got production houses in London that we have agreements with that can produce it for 5K. So that's another tip that some of our B2B agencies that have worked particularly in the U.S. market have found. Those really laser-targeted B2B television commercials have had really good success.

Wow. I didn't even know that was available with no minimums. I would assume if I see an ad, too, that some of the companies that we have in our marketplace have some big bucks behind those programs. But that's interesting that a lot of SMBs could also access these same channels for a relatively minimal cost.

Yes. You can do audience lists, you can do postcodes, you can…