So, what I do, social selling, there's no real budget for ads and I think those days where you actually have to pay to play are gone, especially for SaaS because there's a lot of competition and it's quite challenging to target the exact ICP that you need, right? And the algorithm, yes, it can target different job titles, but unless you have something like a Facebook group where you know there are SaaS founders or VP of sales inside, it's quite challenging to feed your solution to those key decision makers. So, what I'm trying to say is that there's a huge risk of burning money when you go via paid.

Again, depending on your solutions, I'm quite generic here, but based on my experience, social selling is the way if you want to scale.

Great. Can you explain more to maybe the uninitiated what social selling is and why it's such a big opportunity today?

Yeah. So social selling in essence, and high quality lead generation takes a lot of energy and time. So the more time you spend prospecting, the less time you have for those actual calls. So what we do is we look at the ICP and we try to segment that based on their pain points, right? And then we write a super compelling sequence that would fit those pain points. So that's why our response rate is quite big because people feel that they resonate with what we actually say to them.

The opportunity is huge because it gives you that spotlight. We are fighting for attention. Everyone is, that's what sales is. You're fighting for two seconds of someone's time. So when we manage to get that attention on your product, the next step for that lead is to say yes I'm interested or no I don't want to hear anything about this. So the more you expose your solution to potential buyers, the better close rates you have.

Obviously, and I really want to stress this, the product market fit is super important. So again here I'm talking about companies that have a super good product market fit because if it sells by itself, social selling will just amplify it.

Hence the company name Amplify Growth.

So they’ve got to be ready for growth by the time they work with you, and obviously product market fit is huge. What about the ICP definition? Do you feel like a lot of companies fail at that or do you think they fail at the execution stage?

Yeah, great question. I feel that everybody has a good idea of who their ICP is. What I have seen more often is positioning their solution to fit the pain point of the ICP, exactly what I was discussing before. So let's take Calendly for example. They're a meeting automation tool. Everybody knows Calendly. So a USP would not be, “Hi, we're a great meeting scheduling tool with easy interface. Nobody cares.” An actual USP would be no more back and forth emails to book a meeting. One sentence, one pain point, everybody gets it.

Then it's about the execution as well. Where do you find these people? And most importantly, how do you contact them? As I told you before, prospecting takes quite a lot of energy and time. So the more time you spend looking for those leads, the less time you have for the actual call. So I think honestly that teams fail because they do not have a clear strategy around what they should do or the right tools to do that high quality research before they begin. And then again the wrong positioning can just make them miss the mark.

So to be helpful as well to do quality research, you just need to know how to use LinkedIn Sales Navigator if LinkedIn is your channel. Use databases like ZoomInfo, Ocean, and so on. There's so many, but also leverage other tools that extract information from websites. Somehow it still works. Don't ask me, but basic information, basic email still works. We know that generic email addresses are not as powerful, but sometimes they work better than we expected.

Again, it all depends on the ICP and the actual decision makers that you're targeting.

Yep. I guess what are some of the biggest red flags for you when you can identify that a company hasn't figured out what its ICP really is?

When they tell me that cold outreach doesn't work. What are you even doing? If the product market fit is there, it 100% should work. But the first thing I look at is copy. If it's not talking about pain points and solutions then they didn't really understand their ICP or they did but they don't really know how to sell it yet.

Yep. Good point. So I guess how would you translate this ICP understanding into a real growth funnel for sales and marketing teams?

Again it's about what resonates with ICP, right? Do they want to free up time, save money, both ideally both. So don't talk about the solution more than you do about what the solution can actually do for them. I've seen this so many times. So understanding the drivers to buy is actually key.

Yeah, that's a good point. A lot of people like to talk more about their features, but not what it does for people and what they're excited about. You build something and it's just like wow, you can connect to a bot in five seconds. You go on my website and you can talk to a real human in two seconds. And I'm like yep, cool, but you know.

That's probably the number one problem I see all the time.

Yeah. So I guess what metrics matter most early on and which ones do founders obsess over way too soon?

So when you're below 1 million ARR, one of the things that you should be looking at is qualitative signal intensity. Are people saying I love this or are they still asking you is this useful? Very different questions. Then your retention cohorts. How many people are still using your product in week four versus week eight? This is the only metric that cannot be gamed. Then time to value. How fast are these people getting value? The shorter the better activation you have.

And then organic pull. Are other people talking about your tool? Are they bringing their friends on? This is basically your best signal, word of mouth, referrals and so on. And then willingness to pay. Will they actually pay or use it for free?

So these are the things that matter from my point of view. What founders may obsess about way too soon is that MRR milestone. Everyone is chasing the 10K before retention and it really just creates tech debt. Then they look at their customer acquisition cost and lifetime value, which can be meaningless when you're under 100 customers. You just estimate things at that point. And then all of the vanity metrics. I got 10,000 signups. Okay but is that relevant if only 50 people are using your solution? Not really.

And then the last one would be very complicated attribution models. You have like 30 customers. You can literally ask them how they found you. So early on you need a few numbers and a lot of customer conversations.

Yeah, do the things that don't scale from the beginning at least initially so you really understand your customer.

Yeah, exactly. That's why we're doing this because there's so many other tools and they can be buying so many other tools. Why would they pick you?

Yeah, exactly. You shouldn't just be basing everything off a spreadsheet. That's what you do when you're at scale. But those early conversations with customers really help you understand how they think and feel about your product and whether they value it.

Yeah. Sometimes you can go into a business thinking that it is all about the numbers. It is important, but it's actually very human. People like to buy from humans and if you listen more than you talk you maybe find something interesting about your audience. That's the rule of life.

So I guess what usually moves a deal from interested to closed faster? Is it better messaging, better targeting, or better follow-up?

To be honest I think it really depends on when you're losing the deals. But if I have to rank them, I would say the first one would be better targeting. If you're talking to the wrong people, no amount of persistence really helps. Signs you have a targeting problem can be lots of “this sounds great but it's not for us” or long sales cycles for a product that's not so expensive that end in no decision, or prospects that don't have budgets, authority or urgency right now.

To fix this, I would say narrow your ICP ruthlessly. Ten perfect conversations beat a hundred useless ones.

Then I would look at better follow-ups. Some deals are lost from neglect, not necessarily rejection. Some people say that 80% of sales require five or more touch points, but most people stop at two or three. They think they are being annoying. But there are signs if you have a follow-up problem. Your deals go dark in mid funnel, you get “let me think about it” quite often, or you don't have a systematic re-engagement.

So I would structure a follow-up sequence with value adds, not just checking in. And the third one would be better messaging. The sign when your message is a problem is your perfect ICP doesn't get your value prop and they ghost or don't respond. That means your message didn't land.

The fix would be in your copy. Talk to customers that love your product or the ones that left because the gold is in what they say. The ones that left tell you why they didn't like it and the ones that love it give you insights for your messaging.

Everything compounds. Great targeting means your messaging resonates. Good messaging earns you the right to follow up. And persistent follow-up works because you're reaching the right people with the right story at the right time.

Yeah, that's a great way to put it. That's definitely going to be a quote.

Nice.

So what's one thing founders can change this quarter that would immediately improve their close rates?

I'd say listen more on calls than talk.

Yeah.

That's something salespeople need to master. Look more curious rather than assuming what the lead wants.

Yeah, that's true. A lot of people assume what the other side is thinking right away.

Yeah, and I also feel like right now on LinkedIn it's quite trendy to trash a bad sales pitch. Everyone is posting screenshots of messages they get in their DMs or emails and it's cringey because they all go on assumptions. They assume you have a problem when you actually don't.

Yeah. The worst now is the AI content. Too many people rely on AI for everything.

And you can tell.

Yeah, 100%. You can expect the conversation to be standard, not bespoke, and the proposal will look like what a thousand people get.

Yeah. What are your thoughts on the use of AI for these programs?

I think it's useful. You can leverage AI as long as you know it's doing the right thing. You can use AI to find relevant information for outreach, but I wouldn't encourage doing cold blasts based entirely on AI. You're basically leaving your outreach in the hands of a robot and I don't think we're there yet.

People want to optimize time and send 20,000 emails per day, but it does more harm than good at the moment.

Yeah, I think so too. There's a loss of authenticity and people lose trust in your brand.

Yeah, absolutely.

So what about a strong handoff between marketing and sales? What does that look like?

Clear context around why we picked that lead for the sales call. What the lead said before booking the call. What was their motivation? Are they looking to buy now, in three months, or just compare tools?

If you capture that motivation, you can prepare the sales team properly. They can start the conversation from where it left off. That makes the meeting smoother and more relevant.

Also CRM inserts are very useful so the team has all the information they need.

Do you have any tools you recommend?

It depends on the client's CRM. We don't rely heavily on tools for inserts. We sometimes use CSV uploads but often we do manual inserts because it allows for better notes and tagging.

Got it. So you write directly into the CRM?

Yeah, especially for leads that turn into demos.

Great. So why is social selling a must-have today?

It depends on your goals. If you've validated your product and want to scale, you should consider outsourcing this to a team that works alongside your sales team.

We act as an extension of the sales team. We handle the prospecting so your team can focus on calls.

It's important because people don't pay as much attention to ads anymore unless it's B2C. But to get in front of decision makers, social selling is the fastest and most natural way.

Everyone is on LinkedIn, email, WhatsApp. The more natural your approach, the more responses you get.

So what platforms are driving the most pipeline?

It depends on your ICP. Figure out where your prospects spend their time. Are they active on LinkedIn, email, or WhatsApp?

For example, a CFO will respond on email, a startup founder might respond on LinkedIn. Match your message to the platform.

What are some mistakes founders make with outreach?

They don't segment their audience enough. They send the same message to everyone. They pitch too quickly. They use the same message across all platforms.

Each platform needs a different approach. On email you can be longer. On LinkedIn you need to be concise.

So you start with a simple question to get a response?

Exactly. Start with an open question to drive a conversation, then naturally transition into the sales process.

Yeah, I get a lot of long messages that I don't read.

Exactly. People expect selling on LinkedIn, but it's about how you do it.

Yeah.

So what's a growth lesson you learned the hard way?

The power of research. The more you understand your ICP, the better your response rates. Also keep messages simple and think about how a friend would respond. Ask yourself if the message would make someone stop and engage.

Those things come from trial and error.

So what are three benefits of working with Amplify Growth?

We give you qualified meetings without you lifting a finger. We have strong work discipline. And we provide excellent communication and detailed CRM context.

Great. Where can people learn more?

Amplifygrowth.com or on our LinkedIn page or my LinkedIn page where I share insights on outbound and content marketing.

That's great to hear. Andrada, we appreciate you coming on today and sharing these insights.