Introduction Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to another Nachouesday. Today, I have Benny Rubin, the CEO of Senders. Without further ado, Benny, could you introduce your company and explain what you do there? Company Overview Sure, Andy. It's nice to hear your announcer voice. Thank you; you didn’t do that during our prep call, but I like it. It’s very smooth—perfect for moments that matter. Hello, everyone watching, both live and afterwards. Thanks so much for having me; I appreciate it, Andy. Senders helps B2B companies with their cold emailing. We primarily focus on the delivery and sending side of things. Google, Microsoft, and similar platforms are clamping down on B2B senders' ability to send cold emails. We maintain alternative infrastructure that allows companies to send more emails if needed, while also offering better control, improved deliverability, and more granularity on issues such as emails going to the spam folder. Most of the companies we work with are trying to maintain a B2B outbound motion using tools like Apollo.io and Outreach.io. They often encounter problems, such as emails being flagged by Google or Microsoft or suspicions about improper delivery. When they reach out to us, we diagnose the problem and typically set up monthly plans based on the number of emails and the number of reps sending them. Does that make sense, Andy? Email Sending Challenges Yes, it does. I wanted to provide enough detail so people understand where I'm coming from. Many marketers are indeed facing significant issues with declining response rates from cold emails, making it a growing concern. Would you agree that email sending and deliverability issues are becoming more common in B2B marketing? Absolutely. There are a few major shifts happening. My team has been doing cold emailing since 2016 for clients, and I did it before that for companies I worked with or founded. From 2016 to 2020, it was relatively easy to send cold emails and have them delivered. You could send up to 400 emails a day from a single Google Workspace account without issues, and Google seemed generally okay with it. Things began to change around 2018 with the introduction of GDPR, and by 2020, the number of allowed sends had shrunk to around 100 per day. For some, this might seem like a lot, but those who follow these topics are either hardcore opt-in marketers, who believe cold emails are ineffective, or B2B outbound professionals building SaaS companies. For them, 100 emails a day would be great compared to struggling to send even 25. Current Email Restrictions We saw the volume of allowed emails drop from 400 a day to 100 in 2020. My team realized we needed to move all our operations off Google Workspace because it was no longer viable. Nowadays, some people are getting flagged even when sending 20 or 25 emails, which is problematic, especially for larger SDR teams. If SDRs can’t perform their jobs due to sending restrictions, it creates a significant issue. Companies come to us because their new hires, who are supposed to send 100 emails and make 100 calls a day, are getting suspended after sending just a few emails. The solution often involves moving email sending off Google, as Google is clear about not wanting you to use their platform for this purpose. Email Infrastructure Trends To address these issues, companies need IP addresses and other mechanics to keep their email systems running smoothly. In the past, email infrastructure expertise was typically reserved for Series B and later-stage companies, but now even seed-stage companies are paying for this service. This is a significant shift from the past, where smaller companies wouldn’t have imagined needing to invest in email infrastructure until much later. Cold Email Effectiveness With the proliferation of data sources like Apollo.io, more people have entered cold email marketing, which has created additional problems. Spam emails have become an issue as well, and while cold email is often touted as ineffective, it still works for many. Our team handles cold email for dozens of companies simultaneously, so we can definitively say that it works well for a large group of B2B senders, although not for everyone. The effectiveness of cold email varies significantly depending on the target market. For example, emailing large hospital systems with high security may present challenges, while reaching out to early-stage B2B or SaaS companies may be easier. Enabling Effective Sending We aim to enable teams that know who they need to reach and why, allowing them to send emails effectively. We don’t typically get involved in the copy or targeting of emails, as that’s within the realm of marketing, sales, and revenue operations professionals who understand their target market. Email Deliverability Challenges Once companies transition from using Google for their email programs to working with Senders for email deliverability, the approach to managing their email strategy can shift. There are two perspectives to consider: the painkiller side and the vitamin side. Almost all the companies that come to us are experiencing some sort of pain, so we focus on alleviating that pain rather than just adding features that might be seen as "vitamins." For instance, when people come to us, they often have a specific problem, like their emails not being delivered effectively. The benefit of working with us is that they can send the emails they need, and if those emails have healthy open rates and deliverability, clients become enthusiastic. However, whether this results in a higher open rate compared to using Google is sometimes hard to quantify. It can be on par, slightly better, or occasionally less effective. Nevertheless, even if there's a 2-5% difference in open rates, the increased volume of emails sent can compensate for this and help meet their numbers. Impact on Outbound Strategies Many productive sales teams use a combination of outbound strategies, including emailing, phone calls, and LinkedIn outreach. Working with us often means they can increase their email output consistently, which can lead to more email opens. This, in turn, can trigger phone calls and LinkedIn outreach, ultimately boosting their overall metrics. Whether this improvement is attributed to our specific solution or just the relief from their pain point is an open question. Journey to Starting Senders Regarding how I ended up on this path, it's worth mentioning that I had a marketing services company that I built and sold. My co-founder and I thought we were brilliant and decided to start a software company. We raised money from angels, completed a good accelerator program, and executed a lot of outbound strategies. Despite having solid leads and even some deals with large retailers, our influencer marketing software company ultimately failed. It was a significant setback, but it was also a learning experience. Interestingly, I had a similar experience with an influencer marketing platform in 2011, which I built as my first software project. Back then, people were skeptical, but now, influencer marketing is highly sought after. Shift to Email Infrastructure After our failure, I turned my focus to my founder friends and asked them where I could help. Many mentioned that cold emailing was a significant pain point. So, in 2016, I started an outbound agency focused on cold emailing. By 2020, we had honed our expertise in sending emails, and we decided to specialize in email infrastructure. Today, we focus solely on helping businesses with email sending and delivery. We only work with legitimate business senders—proper SaaS platforms and companies with standard offerings. We don’t work with scammer-type operations. Our work is gratifying, even though most people would prefer to receive fewer cold emails. The demand for our services is higher than ever due to the consistent problems marketers face with email deliverability. Additional Issues and Considerations If companies experience sudden changes in their email metrics, it often indicates an underlying issue. For example, if a domain acquires a bad reputation or if someone on the team engages in improper emailing practices, it can negatively impact deliverability. Another factor to consider is who else within the company is using the main domain for emailing. There are different types of email: regular corporate emails, sales emails (which can be damaging if not managed properly), and more. Issues can arise when multiple people within a company are sending emails from the same domain, affecting the overall reputation and deliverability. Email Domain Management When it comes to managing different types of emails—such as marketing emails, transactional emails, and cold emails—sending from the same domain can cause issues. If all types of emails are sent from the same domain, it can lead to problems with deliverability. For instance, marketing emails, newsletters, and transactional emails like password resets can all impact the reputation of the domain. One strategy we employ is called "email fencing," where we create divisions between different types of emails. Often, this can be achieved with subdomains rather than entirely separate domains. It's crucial to assess not only your own sending practices but also to examine what's happening within your company. Sometimes, the root of the deliverability issue might not be in the cold emails themselves. For example, a marketing team might inadvertently use a Bitly link in a newsletter instead of a regular UTM parameter link, causing those emails to go to spam, which then affects the cold email sending. Avoiding Overcomplication A lot of companies use subdomains to avoid harming their main domain’s reputation. However, there's a risk of overcomplicating things by creating too many domains. For example, a large company like UPS might use only a handful of domains despite sending millions of emails. Creating numerous domains can lead to confusion and issues with internet systems trying to verify the authenticity of the sender. It's important to find a balance and avoid spreading your email infrastructure too thin. Tips for Improving Deliverability To improve email deliverability, don't overlook the importance of SPF, DMARC, and DKIM records. These are critical for email infrastructure and domain security. SPF (Sender Policy Framework), DMARC (Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Conformance), and DKIM (DomainKeys Identified Mail) help ensure that emails are verified and not spoofed. Imagine explaining these terms to a child: if you send a child to school with a secret word for picking them up, SPF, DMARC, and DKIM work similarly by verifying the sender’s identity. They prevent email spoofing by ensuring that only authorized senders can send emails on behalf of a domain. Common Oversights Many businesses overlook these basics, even though they are essential. For instance, some companies might not set up these records correctly or might skip setting them up altogether. This oversight often happens because the setup is abstracted away and might be put off as "something to do later." Over time, these small details can accumulate and impact overall effectiveness. Founders and Basic Setup Founders often get excited about launching their products and generating sales, sometimes neglecting foundational tasks like setting up proper email infrastructure. I’ve experienced this myself; my business grew significantly before I even named it or created a website. While it’s common for marketers to focus on helping others, they sometimes neglect their own needs. Eventually, setting up a brand and proper infrastructure becomes beneficial. It not only adds credibility but also helps the team feel more connected and professional. A well-established brand can take on a life of its own, contributing to the overall success and trustworthiness of the business. Email Domain Management When it comes to managing different types of emails—such as marketing emails, transactional emails, and cold emails—sending from the same domain can cause issues. If all types of emails are sent from the same domain, it can lead to problems with deliverability. For instance, marketing emails, newsletters, and transactional emails like password resets can all impact the reputation of the domain. One strategy we employ is called "email fencing," where we create divisions between different types of emails. Often, this can be achieved with subdomains rather than entirely separate domains. It's crucial to assess not only your own sending practices but also to examine what's happening within your company. Sometimes, the root of the deliverability issue might not be in the cold emails themselves. For example, a marketing team might inadvertently use a Bitly link in a newsletter instead of a regular UTM parameter link, causing those emails to go to spam, which then affects the cold email sending. Avoiding Overcomplication A lot of companies use subdomains to avoid harming their main domain’s reputation. However, there's a risk of overcomplicating things by creating too many domains. For example, a large company like UPS might use only a handful of domains despite sending millions of emails. Creating numerous domains can lead to confusion and issues with internet systems trying to verify the authenticity of the sender. It's important to find a balance and avoid spreading your email infrastructure too thin. Tips for Improving Deliverability To improve email deliverability, don't overlook the importance of SPF, DMARC, and DKIM records. These are critical for email infrastructure and domain security. SPF (Sender Policy Framework), DMARC (Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Conformance), and DKIM (DomainKeys Identified Mail) help ensure that emails are verified and not spoofed. Imagine explaining these terms to a child: if you send a child to school with a secret word for picking them up, SPF, DMARC, and DKIM work similarly by verifying the sender’s identity. They prevent email spoofing by ensuring that only authorized senders can send emails on behalf of a domain. Common Oversights Many businesses overlook these basics, even though they are essential. For instance, some companies might not set up these records correctly or might skip setting them up altogether. This oversight often happens because the setup is abstracted away and might be put off as "something to do later." Over time, these small details can accumulate and impact overall effectiveness. Founders and Basic Setup Founders often get excited about launching their products and generating sales, sometimes neglecting foundational tasks like setting up proper email infrastructure. I’ve experienced this myself; my business grew significantly before I even named it or created a website. While it’s common for marketers to focus on helping others, they sometimes neglect their own needs. Eventually, setting up a brand and proper infrastructure becomes beneficial. It not only adds credibility but also helps the team feel more connected and professional. A well-established brand can take on a life of its own, contributing to the overall success and trustworthiness of the business.