# SMB Tips for Effective Financial Management

> A NachoTuesday interview — the C-Suite Insights series from NachoNacho, the B2B SaaS and AI
> marketplace. In conversation with Jacopo Proietti, Co-founder, Dokin.

- **Page:** https://nachonacho.com/nachotuesday/video/SMB-Tips-for-Effective-Financial-Management
- **Guest:** Jacopo Proietti, Co-founder, Dokin
- **Guest on LinkedIn:** https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacopo-proietti/
- **Recorded:** 2024-01-11
- **Watch:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojimG06FajM

## Summary

In this NachoTuesday, Andy Karuza interviews Jacopo Proietti, Co-Founder of Dokin. In this interview, they covered Financial Strategy 101 for Startups. This discussion included how to make your money go further and grow your revenue during a down economic cycle.

## Product discussed

- **Name:** Dokin
- **Page:** https://nachonacho.com/product/dokin
- **What it is:** The data platform of modern business teams.
Sync Google Sheets, Slides & Docs with live data from your business apps.
- **NachoNacho deal:** 30% CASHBACK All Plans. Forever.
- **Estimated savings:** Save up to $1,436/year

## Full transcript

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to another NachoTuesday! Today, I have Jacopo with Dokin, and without further ado, we would love it if you could give us a quick elevator pitch for what your company does. Jacopo: "Yes, thanks, Andy. So, Dokin is a data platform integrated with spreadsheets. We allow marketing teams, sales operations, and others to sync live data from their CRMs, marketing channels, and SQL databases into Google Sheets. Thanks to our ability to connect this data, these teams can automate reporting and create live and dynamic dashboards." (00:41) "Perfect. So, what got you down this path in your career? You know, you and I were able to meet, luckily, because you were in New York last week, so we were able to catch up on everything. But for the uninitiated watching today, we'd love to hear more about your career and your backstory and how you came down this path." Jacopo: "Yeah, sure. I have more of a finance background and have always worked with startups. I started out at Augury in London, an advertising technology company. Back then, in London, I was their first finance hire. That's when I started to get interested in startups and really saw the importance of leveraging data, especially marketing and go-to-market data, in the right way. Then I moved to BlaBlaCar, a company backed by Silicon Valley VCs, operating out of France. It's very big in Europe and South America. I worked there for seven years as the head of FP&A, which stands for Financial Planning and Analysis. I was in charge of forecasting, budgeting, financial reporting, and all of that. In that position, I worked a lot with marketing teams, operations teams, strategy teams, and similar groups. Every time I built reports or dashboards, I had to extract data from various software, rework it in spreadsheets, and create formulas. The problem was that I was never working with live data. As soon as the data changed in one of the software or another spreadsheet, I had to start everything from scratch." (02:25) "Jeez, that sounds frustrating. So, with another colleague from BlaBlaCar, we started looking for solutions but couldn't find one that suited us. That's when we decided to create our own solution. We started working on Dokin a bit more than a year ago and released our first beta in February 2023. We launched our MVP in May." "Perfect. How's the launch been so far? Have you learned anything along the way?" Jacopo: "Yes, plenty. It's been a crazy journey when you launch a startup because you try so many things and iterate a lot. You speak with so many different people, and it's really a roller coaster. There are times when you think you've figured something out and times when you have to start from scratch. I would say the key thing is that you really have to talk to a lot of people. This adventure has taught me that business is really about people. You need to understand their problems to create a solution that's suitable for them." (03:36) "And how do you differentiate between good feedback and feedback that might not be as qualified? Because, as you mentioned, people give you feedback from so many different directions, and it's hard to filter through all of it." Jacopo: "Yeah, it's really easy at the beginning to try to build a product that suits every request and everybody, especially when you're trying to make your first revenue. In our case, what's been really helpful is that we've experienced the problem ourselves, so we have a vision that's aligned with our experience and what we've heard from our first beta users. But it's still important to keep an eye on potential opportunities, different targets, and market trends to make sure you achieve that product-market fit, which is hard to maintain in the beginning. The vision of the founders is crucial to avoid being easily influenced by every request." (04:40) "That's a good point. The best entrepreneurs I've seen, and I've interviewed many great people, usually come from a deep understanding of the problem. They've worked closely with the situation at hand and often realize the problem themselves because they've been in the industry or a particular niche. They understand, as maybe even a customer themselves, the best way to solve that problem." Jacopo: "Absolutely. It's easier when you've lived the problem yourself. Of course, there are many people who can start a business without having experienced the problem firsthand but have a good understanding of the market or product they're selling. Still, it's easier when you've lived the problem." (05:35) "Definitely. So, what tips do you have for startups to get their initial sales traction? What should they do with that early revenue?" Jacopo: "Well, we've made plenty of mistakes along the way, and I'm sure we're still making them. But my two cents are that business is about people. At the beginning, you should have an agenda full of meetings with your potential customers. You really want to speak with your ideal target audience to understand their problems, build a solution that addresses those problems, and see what existing solutions are available. If you can offer something different or more valuable, that's key. At the beginning, it's all about that. If you're able to make your first revenues, you should reinvest it in activities that allow you to find the right... (06:43) "Right channels to make the sales. It's normal to try a lot of things, so you might start with reaching out to people on LinkedIn, emailing, or maybe even advertising. Some people are good with Facebook ads or Google ads. It's important to try many things and understand which ones work best by speaking with the right audience and your potential customers. When you start making your first revenue, reinvesting it wisely is crucial." (07:19) "Sometimes, it's important to do the hard things first, like picking up the phone. As another person we interviewed, Coco, said, a lot of people don't even use cold calls these days. Sometimes, you just have to be proactive and reach out one-to-one to get those initial early sales. Building those personal relationships is key, and even if it means doing one-to-one sales, you learn a lot from those customers when you're talking to them initially." (07:45) "Absolutely. I think everyone is open to discussing how you can help them. People are usually willing to give you 15 to 30 minutes of their time when you're offering to understand their problems and help solve them. As you said, it can be very manual; you have to reach out to many people on LinkedIn or via email. But you shouldn't be afraid to go out there and speak with people. It's really about that." (08:22) "Having worked in the financial industry for many years, you know that cash flow is the lifeblood of a company. What trends have you seen for companies that operate in a financially healthy way, and what tips can you offer for SMB owners to better manage their cash flow?" Jacopo: "Yeah, cash is the most important thing at the end of the day. Whether you're a startup or a bigger company, it all comes down to cash. When I was working at BlaBlaCar, one of our values was 'Be lean, go far.' It was a principle and approach that managers had to live by, meaning that you should always act like a bootstrapped company, even if you're backed by VCs. You should make investments that make sense and can optimize the company's growth and team effectiveness. This approach is a healthy way to manage your cash and cash flow because it encourages you to treat cash as a limited resource. This mindset helped us a lot at BlaBlaCar, especially during difficult times. You never know when a new black swan event, like COVID-19, might arise. We had the right resources and cash in place to navigate those challenges. Every company goes through ups and downs, and managing cash healthily helps you get through them. This is especially true now that I'm starting Dokin and keeping it bootstrapped. It's a super healthy way of managing your early days." (10:10) "What common ways have you seen other SMBs or startups bleed cash, and what are some common pitfalls?" Jacopo: "It depends on the industry and the type of business, but one thing I always recommend to founders is not to be too quick in signing fixed costs. These are costs you'll have to cover regardless of your business's activity. Sometimes they are necessary, like hiring more people or getting a bigger office space, but you should be cautious and not rush these decisions. Always consider the upsides and downsides, and ideally, prioritize generating revenue before committing to significant fixed costs. This approach is shaped by my career experiences, which have included periods of ample cash availability and others marked by crises like COVID-19, inflation, and the current economic situation. These events make you more cautious, and fixed costs can become a hurdle to manage during difficult times." (12:12) "Definitely. I think a lot of companies too easily hire people and then are too quick to let them go when times get tough. You see this a lot with tech companies—they overhire and then lay off many people during economic downturns. If they managed it better from the beginning, they might not hire for positions that they didn't have enough work for, in my opinion." Jacopo: "Absolutely. As your company grows, it's easy to fall into the trap of overhiring. You want to grow fast, so you think you need more salespeople or engineers. At BlaBlaCar, we had a hiring committee composed of different teams, including the CFO and HR. Every new hire had to go through a rigorous process. Many companies do this, and it's a way to ensure you're not making hasty decisions." (13:11) "I think you really need to have a structured way of making these decisions. Otherwise, you might end up over-hiring and then face the difficult decision of letting people go. Many people base their careers on your business, so you need to keep that in mind. Another common way I've seen companies bleed cash is by spending too much on advertising or marketing before they've figured out product-market fit. Have you seen similar situations with startups?" (13:43) "Absolutely. It's a mistake we almost made when we started Dokin. We had some ideas in mind and thought about testing with ads. But the truth is, until you've really identified your ideal persona and established product-market fit, spending on ads can just be a waste of money. You end up in bidding wars on Google or Facebook ads without seeing a return. You need to be careful and strategic with your marketing investments, ensuring they align with your overall goals and timing." (14:21) "I've also seen a lot of startups spend heavily on PR, trying to get their brand out there. While having logos like TechCrunch on your website can add credibility, it can also be a waste if it doesn't generate substantial results. Some PR companies will take your money without delivering much value, especially if your product isn't particularly newsworthy at that stage." (15:21) "When you're a founder, there are many ways to waste money. People often come after your money, especially when you might not have much. Cash is crucial, so you need to be cautious about how you spend it. For instance, companies that raise funds often receive congratulatory messages followed by offers to spend money. It's important to be discerning and prioritize spending wisely." (15:49) "Another big concern is lack of organization, which can cause companies to fail. How does data management play a role in preventing disorganization, based on your experience in the financial industry and starting Dokin?" (16:20) "One of the first important lessons we learned, especially when starting Dokin, was the value of good advice. We were lucky to have advisors who emphasized the importance of measuring the effectiveness of everything we tried. From day one, we tested many channels and strategies but ensured we had the right data framework to track our actions. This meant collecting relevant data and analyzing it to understand our market strategy and financial situation. It's challenging to implement this when you're busy, but it's crucial." (18:00) "It's important to step back and ensure you have a proper data framework. You should know how many emails you've sent, your conversion rates, the effectiveness of your ads, and so on. Documenting everything helps, especially as your company grows. It allows you to look back and see what worked and what didn't. Consistency across the company in measuring key performance indicators (KPIs) is also essential, so everyone is aligned with the business goals." (18:56) "What other common operational mistakes do you see founders make?" (19:30) "It depends on the stage of the company. Early on, the risk is spreading yourself too thin and trying to do too many things, draining your energy. It's also easy to want to appeal to a broad audience, which can lead to creating a product with too many features and no clear focus. As you grow and start hiring more teams, aligning everyone becomes critical. Misalignment can lead to data silos, making it hard to make informed decisions. At BlaBlaCar, we had a lot of budgets and software, but it wasn't always easy to share the right information between teams, which can be a significant operational challenge." (21:21) "What tools do you commonly see integrated with platforms like yours, and what tools are startups using to manage their data?" (22:02) "At Dokin, we integrate with more than 20 applications, including CRMs and marketing channels. Having a CRM early on can seem like overkill, but it's very helpful for structuring your market approach and tracking your sales efforts. It's also crucial to understand your landing page traffic, conversion rates, and sources. Paying attention to how you're communicating with your targets is vital." (22:40) "Failure is part of any profession. Can you share a time you failed and what you learned from it?" (23:24) "There have been many failures, but the most painful are often related to hiring the wrong person. A bad hire can lead to frustration for the individual and their teammates. It's crucial to ensure alignment of values between the new hire and the team. The cost of a misaligned hire can be significant, affecting team morale and overall performance." (23:59) "For early-stage startups, the core team is critical. If you get that right, everything else falls into place more easily. Do you have any tips for interviewing candidates to ensure they fit the company's vision and culture?" (24:32) "Nowadays, hiring processes often emphasize technical skills, with case studies and tests. However, it's also important to assess cultural fit. Spending time with the team in informal settings, like having coffee or working together on a mini-project, can help gauge if the prospective hire shares the company's values and work ethic. This can provide valuable insights and help make better hiring decisions. While this doesn't eliminate all risks, it's a worthwhile practice, especially in the early stages." (25:48) "The core team can really make or break a company if things go wrong. It's not just about a CEO-to-new-hire interview. The candidate should also interview with others they'd work with regularly, and maybe even with team members they wouldn't interact with daily but might cross paths with eventually. Getting multiple viewpoints from employees helps determine if the person is a good fit." (26:17) "I remember when I was at BlaBlaCar. I wasn't one of the first hires, but as part of the process, we had a call with our CEO at the time. It was a simple 30-minute call, but it was important to understand if the person was aligned with the company's values. As a founder, it's crucial to maintain this approach, to ensure that new team members align with your vision." (26:55) "What other challenges did you face as a company, and how did you overcome them?" (27:31) "Launching a startup is a daily challenge. Every day brings something new. I often joke that if something goes well, something bad must be coming right after. Initially, the challenge was getting into the market, reaching our target audience, and having important conversations with our first users. Now, the challenge is matching the growing demand and bringing the product up to the level expected by new customers. It's a tricky balance. You need to attract new leads and users while quickly delivering on the product side. If there are minor bugs and a lead encounters them, you might lose them forever. So, you need to step up your game both technically and in acquisition efforts." (28:41) "Early on, you might hustle to get a few friends or initial customers, but as you scale, the details really matter. That initial user experience is crucial. If someone encounters a bug, they might write off your entire company. Most people don't have time to figure out issues unless you're solving a very painful problem. So, during that growth period, it's essential to ensure your product is top-notch, your customer experience is excellent, and all your communication is aligned. Consistency in messaging is also key." (29:35) "It's a tough job at the beginning. It's easy to get caught up in trying to make sales and chase new leads, which can put pressure on the product side. You might end up with a product that doesn't fully address anyone's needs." (30:13) "What key takeaways would you like our audience to know about Dokin and why they should choose your service?" (30:13) "If you're using data in functions like marketing, sales, or operations, I understand your pain. I've experienced the challenges of trying to get a clear overview of your go-to-market data. Come give Dokin a try. We're building a product to meet your needs, providing a 360-degree view of your go-to-market strategy. We're eager for feedback and want to improve your experience, so give it a try. I'd be happy to chat and see how we can help." (30:46) "If anyone is interested in aligning their data management and scaling their company, it's important to get everything set up early on. The sooner, the better. You can find Dokin in the Nacho Nacho Marketplace, the best place to buy SaaS. You guys offer 30% cash back right now, right?" (31:17) "Exactly, 30% cash back. It was great to meet you in person, Jacopo, and I look forward to hopefully meeting you in Europe next time." (31:17) "Absolutely, it was great meeting you too and having this chat. I'm really happy we had this conversation." (31:17) "Likewise, thanks, Jacopo. Take care." (31:17) "Thank you, thank you."

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