# Customer Service As a Strategic Advantage

> A NachoTuesday interview — the C-Suite Insights series from NachoNacho, the B2B SaaS and AI
> marketplace. In conversation with Tom Jordan, Founder, Malcolm!.

- **Page:** https://nachonacho.com/nachotuesday/video/Customer-Service-As-a-Strategic-Advantage
- **Guest:** Tom Jordan, Founder, Malcolm!
- **Guest on LinkedIn:** https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomjordan/
- **Recorded:** 2024-03-13
- **Watch:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPMMzvog7G4

## Summary

Tom Jordan from Malcolm introduces their no-code self-service platform that empowers businesses to build their own customer self-service systems, including knowledge bases and automated customer journeys. This helps businesses scale their customer service, improve consistency and efficiency, and cater to the growing preference of customers to find solutions themselves online, 24/7. Tom emphasizes that effective customer service is not just a cost of doing business but a significant competitive advantage, especially for startups and SMBs, allowing them to differentiate themselves and build strong customer relationships. He advocates for a customer-centric approach in all aspects of the business, from pre-sales to onboarding and ongoing support, highlighting that positive customer experiences lead to loyalty, recommendations, and ultimately, business growth. Key Talking Points: Malcolm: A No-Code Platform for Building Customer Self-Service Systems : It enables businesses to create FAQs, automated customer journeys, and knowledge bases, empowering customers to find solutions independently and freeing up customer service teams for more complex issues. Customer Service is a Critical Competitive Advantage , Not Just a Cost: Excellent customer service builds trust, differentiates a business from competitors, enhances customer loyalty, and drives positive word-of-mouth marketing, ultimately contributing to revenue growth. A Customer-Centric Approach, Thoughtful Implementation of Technology, and Human Touch are Essential for Effective Customer Service : While tools like chatbots can be helpful, their implementation must prioritize the customer experience and offer easy pathways to human support when needed. Focusing on quality interactions and understanding customer needs is paramount for long-term success.

## Full transcript

Andy: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to another Nacho Tuesday. Today, I have Tom Jordan here with Malcolm. We're going to discuss customer service and how it can be a significant competitive advantage for your company. Even the smallest companies can compete against the big ones just by having a better customer service strategy. So, without further ado, Tom, could you introduce your company and explain what you do? Tom Jordan: Of course, hi Andy, and hello to everyone watching. Malcolm is a no-code, self-service platform. We help our customers build self-service systems that they can then use with their own customers. This approach has several benefits: it helps our customers scale their customer service offerings, increases consistency, and enhances efficiency. Our system allows businesses to serve customers 24/7. Studies show that customers prefer to handle things online themselves, and with our system, they can do so anytime, even at 3 AM. Andy: That's a significant point. Many people prefer not to go through the hassle of calling a customer service line. They often look for answers to simple questions online. Your platform does a great job automating these processes and making things easier for users. Tom Jordan: Exactly. We enable business owners or customer service teams to build out customer journeys for common tasks. For example, insurance companies or brokers often deal with frequent tasks like updating or submitting details. With our platform, these tasks can be built and managed quickly. Users can integrate these journeys with other systems, such as Dropbox or Google Sheets. Additionally, you can build knowledge bases and FAQs to address frequently asked questions and display them on your website or in our support hub. Andy: It follows the Pareto Principle, the 80/20 rule. Most questions are about a small percentage of issues that customers frequently encounter. Tom Jordan: Absolutely. Since the internet began, we've had frequently asked questions. It’s amusing how some people see this as an outdated concept, but most searches are still questions. Many businesses encounter the same queries repeatedly. We help customer service staff handle these repetitive questions efficiently, allowing them to focus on more complex issues. Andy: What led you to your career in customer service and the development of Malcolm? Tom Jordan: It's an interesting story. When I was 18, before going to university, I got a summer job in the UK with a large dental insurer called BUPA. They placed me in the customer service department, where I started answering phone calls and handling post. Returning every university holiday, I gained a lot of insight into customer service, which planted the seed for my career. After university, I worked for a couple of startups, including AOL, and later founded my own digital marketing agency. Initially, we focused on branding, logo design, websites, and Facebook apps. However, as the digital landscape evolved, our work shifted from marketing to digital transformation projects. We began building extranets and online servicing capabilities for clients, including banks and insurance companies. Andy: It sounds like you gained significant experience working with large clients and adapting to the digital transformation wave. Tom Jordan: Yes, working with large companies gave us a deep understanding of customer service. We saw firsthand how customer experiences could vary greatly, especially when dealing with technology. This experience highlighted the need for efficient and effective self-service solutions. Andy: It’s fascinating how many great products come from agencies. They often have a broad perspective on customer needs and issues. Tom Jordan: Absolutely. Agencies deal with a diverse client base, which helps them understand a wide range of customer problems. They often create solutions to address these issues and realize that these solutions can benefit a broader audience. This experience provides valuable insights into customer needs and drives innovation. Andy: It’s a great example of how agency experience can lead to the development of effective solutions. Tom Jordan: One thing that product and marketing people are really good at is understanding the customer service side. Understanding the customer and what they truly want is crucial because if you don't grasp that, you won't excel in marketing. Good customer service creates a strong relationship with your customers, allowing you to listen to and understand their needs better. This, in turn, helps you deliver on the promise that your product is supposed to meet. Customer service can be a strategic advantage, as many companies don't fully understand their customers. Those that do will make better decisions aligned with their customers' interests, ultimately driving revenue. Andy: In your opinion, how do you see customer service as a strategic advantage for startups and SMBs? Some might think it costs too much to manage a good customer service operation and prefer to invest their money elsewhere. What would you say to that? Tom Jordan: I am quite passionate about this topic. I believe customer service is everything. Many businesses see it as a cost of doing business or just an after-sales function, but I think it’s the gift that's hiding in plain sight. If you think about your own experiences, great interactions with companies often start with excellent customer service. Whether you're in a restaurant asking for a recommendation or in a store seeking help, these interactions highlight a company's expertise and set them apart from competitors. Marketing often focuses on engagement through social media, but for me, customer service is the ultimate form of engagement. Getting it right from the start differentiates you from your competitors and showcases your expertise. Andy: What are your thoughts on onboarding? It seems to be a critical part of the customer experience. Tom Jordan: Onboarding is crucial. To onboard someone, you first need to attract them. However, I've seen a disconnect between acquisition and onboarding in many agencies. They invest heavily in flashy ads to attract people, but once they’ve secured them, they leave them to a different team. Onboarding should be seen as an extension of the sales process. It’s about confirming that the customer has made the right choice and showing your passion for your product. It’s also an opportunity to introduce them to other aspects of your business. The experience should confirm their decision and enhance their perception of your company. Andy: The principles of onboarding can be applied to different industries. For example, if you go to a restaurant and have a bad experience with service, it affects your entire perception of the place. Similarly, if software users have a poor initial experience, it impacts their view of the product. Tom Jordan: Exactly. Mistakes can happen, whether in restaurants or other services. The key is how businesses recover from these mistakes. It’s about building relationships through effective recovery. People are often forgiving if they feel valued. Onboarding is a significant part of the process. When people feel they’ve made the right choice and the experience improves, they are more likely to share positive feedback and recommendations. Andy: You mentioned chatbots earlier. What are your thoughts on their implementation? Tom Jordan: Chatbots are trendy and can be great if implemented well, but poor implementation can make them frustrating. They should be used appropriately based on your customer base. For example, an older demographic might prefer a phone call over a chatbot. The implementation should always consider the customer’s point of view. Not everyone has a fast or stable internet connection, so it’s important to ensure chatbots work well across various scenarios. A poorly designed chatbot that traps users in endless loops can be a terrible customer experience. Andy: It sounds like a lot of the issues with chatbots come down to their implementation. Poorly implemented chatbots can damage customer perceptions of a company. Tom Jordan: Absolutely. It’s important not to treat chatbots as just a checkbox. They need to be well-tested and thoughtfully integrated. A recent story about a delivery company’s chatbot highlights how poor implementation can lead to embarrassing situations. Ensuring quality implementation is crucial. Don’t just add a chatbot to say you have one—make sure it genuinely enhances the customer experience. Andy: It seems that customer service is a fundamental pillar of any successful organization. It helps in understanding customers, providing a great experience, and building long-term relationships. Tom Jordan: Exactly. Take Amazon, for example. They are known for their exceptional customer service. Even if something goes wrong, their response is quick and effective. This creates a positive halo effect around their brand. Amazon understands that while technology and great products are important, exceptional customer service is what truly sets them apart. They focus on not just having a marketplace but delivering a fantastic customer experience across all aspects of their business. (08:14) Product and marketing people are really good at understanding the customer service side. They excel at understanding what customers truly want because, if you don’t understand that, you won’t be good at marketing. So, everything starts with great customer service and a strong relationship with your customer. If you can truly listen to and understand their needs, you can better deliver on the promises your product is supposed to make. (08:37) Customer service really is a strategic advantage for many companies. To your point, a lot of companies don’t understand their customers as well as they think they do. If they do understand their customers, they’ll make better decisions aligned with customer interests, and ultimately, that’s where the money comes from. (08:58) In your opinion, how do you see customer service as a strategic advantage for startups and SMBs? Many of them might believe that managing a good customer service operation costs money and they might prefer to spend their resources elsewhere. What would you say to that? (09:23) Well, I’m passionate about this topic and I always emphasize that customer service is everything. Sometimes, businesses view customer service as just a cost of doing business or as an after-sales function. However, it’s actually a gift hiding in plain sight. Great experiences with companies always start with excellent customer service. For example, if you’re at a restaurant and don’t know what to order, you ask the waiter for recommendations. Similarly, if you’re at a clothing store and need help trying on a jacket, you’ll ask for that recommendation. (09:46) Customer service allows you to showcase your expertise and stand out from the competition. While many marketing strategies focus on engagement through social media, I believe customer service is the ultimate form of engagement. If you get it right from the start, as part of the pre-sales process, it creates a clear distinction between you and your competitors. (10:13) Startups and SMBs should use customer service as a major marketing weapon. Especially when it comes to onboarding, it’s crucial. What are your thoughts on onboarding? (10:41) Onboarding is essential. To onboard someone, you need to ensure they want to be onboarded in the first place. I’ve observed a big disconnect between acquisition and onboarding. Companies often spend a lot on flashy ads to attract people, but once they’re acquired, it’s handed off to a different team. Onboarding is another way of selling—it confirms to the customer that they’ve made the right choice and that you’re passionate about your business. (11:09) You gather the details you need from the customer so they can proceed with their goals. Additionally, you might inform them about other services you offer. Onboarding is key and should reflect your real-life interactions. If you feel you’ve made the right decision, and the experience continues to improve, that’s when you tell your friends and recommend the service. (11:53) Your point about going to a restaurant is relevant. Even though it’s a different industry, the same principles apply. If you’ve heard great things about a restaurant and then have a poor experience, such as bad service or slow delivery, it negatively affects your overall perception of the place. The same goes for software—if the initial experience doesn’t meet expectations, your perception of the product will be tainted, even if onboarding improves later. (12:17) Mistakes happen, whether in restaurants or elsewhere. How companies handle these mistakes, and their recovery process, is crucial. This is similar to real life, where relationships are built through these interactions. It’s about being forgiving and human. Sometimes, we strive for perfection, but people are generally understanding if the process is handled well. (12:38) The key is to surface your humanity, especially for online businesses. Customers interact with a website but should realize that it’s crafted by people who are passionate about what they do and want to provide a great experience. (14:12) What are some core aspects of customer service that every startup should consider? You mentioned an FAQ earlier, which is a given. What about chatbots and other recent features? (14:40) Chatbots are trendy, but their effectiveness depends on implementation. For tech-savvy users, a well-implemented chatbot can be great, but if it’s poorly done, it can be annoying. It’s also important to consider whether chatbots are suitable for all customer demographics. For example, an older user base might prefer speaking to a human rather than interacting with a chatbot. (15:07) Not everyone has fast or stable internet, and chatbots may not perform well in such scenarios. Poor implementation can result in frustrating customer experiences, such as endless loops of unhelpful responses. This impacts customer opinions of the organization negatively. (16:27) People are often frustrated by poorly implemented chatbots that send them in circles. The organization’s reputation suffers, and it feels disrespectful to customers who are time-poor. (17:17) There have been recent stories of chatbots being poorly tested, leading to embarrassing situations. It highlights the need for quality implementation rather than just ticking a checkbox. (18:04) Customer service is a pillar on which the entire business is built. Understanding the customer and providing a great experience from the start helps in acquiring, converting, and retaining customers. Good customer service can turn customers into advocates who spread the word. (19:37) Companies like Amazon have built a vertically integrated great experience from start to finish. They manage to deliver quickly, often within a few hours or at least one to two days, and have created a seamless customer experience. (20:05) For startups and SMBs in 2024, there’s a chance to use customer service as a differentiator. Despite economic challenges and potential reductions in customer service spending by big businesses, startups can stand out by focusing on high-quality customer service. (20:33) There’s an opportunity to examine and enhance customer service practices. It’s not just about providing tools; it’s about implementing them effectively. Businesses that elevate their customer service will stand out against their competitors. (21:04) The danger lies in businesses automating everything without a good strategy, leading to frustrated customers. The businesses that focus on quality customer service, despite automation trends, will succeed. (21:29) In 2024, businesses should be mindful of balancing automation with human touch. Automation is useful, but over-reliance on it can detract from the customer experience. There will be a pushback against excessive automation, leading to a demand for more authentic interactions. (22:42) There’s a thin line between leveraging automation and maintaining authenticity. Companies will need to balance the two to meet customer expectations and retain trust. As more businesses adopt automation, those that focus on genuine human interaction will have an edge. (23:30) Airlines are an interesting example. Often, automation leads to inefficient solutions, such as bizarre rebookings when flights are canceled. If automation is poorly implemented, it can result in a frustrating experience for customers. (24:16) Criticism of automation often comes from its failure to meet customer needs effectively. When businesses prioritize cost savings without considering customer impact, it can damage their reputation and customer loyalty. (25:04) A long-term view is necessary. Businesses should consider how their customers would feel about their service. Would they appreciate complete automation or prefer human interaction? (25:30) Consistency in messaging is crucial. Even if you emphasize the importance of quality implementation repeatedly, it reinforces the key message. Automation is valuable, but its success depends on how well it’s implemented. (25:57) When designing FAQs and customer flows, it’s important to reflect your company’s ethos and tone of voice. Ensure that your customer service policies are fair and that your online persona aligns with your commitment to service. (26:20) A customer’s intent to cancel can be an opportunity to address their concerns and potentially retain them. Avoid making cancellation processes difficult or punitive, as it can damage your reputation. (27:08) Treat customers as you would like to be treated. Review your policies and tone of voice to ensure a positive experience. Even in a digital world, maintaining a human touch in customer service is essential. (19:37) You know, sometimes within a few hours, it’s crazy, but they could even do it within 24 hours. On average, it might be one to two days if you’re a bit further out. They’ve built this whole vertically integrated experience all the way through for the customer. Exactly. So, I guess, what other predictions do you have for customer service trends in 2024 that SMBs should be aware of? Well, I think, at the moment, obviously, economies aren't doing as well as they were. I think a lot of big businesses might be tempted to cut back on customer service spend. In some ways, this often means they will shift more stuff online and potentially reduce the number of people they have in-store or on the phones. In one way, this should be good for companies like Malcolm, right? But again, I worry about implementation. I think for startups and SMBs, there’s an opportunity to go out on the front foot and use customer service as a means to differentiate. It’s always about the quality of what you do. Even with Malcolm, we can provide the tools to write answers to your questions and create user journeys, but you have to write quality answers and design customer flows in a way that makes sense. We can give you the tools, but we can’t do everything for you. (21:04) So, the opportunity in 2024 is for all businesses to look at how they do customer service and ask, "What can we do to really elevate it and stand out against our competitors?" The businesses that do that will do well. You’ll see a lot of other businesses that just automate everything without a good implementation strategy. This will lead to frustrated customers. I've seen this on my own social networks—people complaining about pricing increases from internet providers, saying they can’t get through to resolve their issues, and then migrating to other providers. (22:17) I think 2024 will be challenging for many businesses, but there’s always opportunity. Nimble, customer service-focused businesses can take advantage of those who neglect it and build more trust with their customers. There’s always a silver lining. Many companies are moving towards automation, which is great for leveraging available tools. However, there will be pushback against too much automation because larger companies, especially those publicly traded, focus heavily on cutting costs. This might lead them to miss out on great customer experiences as they try to automate as much as possible. We’re already starting to see complaints about excessive automation and chatbot loops. I think this will increase over the next year or two, leading to a pushback towards more authenticity and away from relying solely on artificial intelligence and automation. (23:30) I agree completely. I can see companies soon saying, "We don’t use AI or automation. You can pick up the phone and talk to us directly." It’s all about qualitative implementation. I always think airlines are an interesting example. When your flight gets canceled, you often hear stories about bizarre rebooking routes. This is automation trying to solve the problem, but it’s not always done in a way that’s particularly useful. Then you end up with frustrated customers trying to get through to someone, and there’s very little human resource available. It’s easy to criticize, and nobody gets it right the first time. Airlines are trying to improve, but there’s a danger that at the board level, the focus on cost-saving can overlook the customer experience. This can damage a company’s reputation for years. (25:04) You have to take a long-term view and always consider the customer’s perspective. If you were a customer and experienced this, would you appreciate everything being automated, or would you prefer to talk to a human? Marketing consistency is key, so even if it seems like a broken record, the message remains: automation is great, but it’s all about how you implement it correctly. One important thing we always emphasize with customers setting up Malcolm is to take the time to write your FAQs and design customer flows. Make sure to surface your ethos and tone of voice. You don’t want to just say, "It’s all online now." Ensure the quality of the experience remains high, with a consistent tone of voice and fair policies. (27:08) For instance, a cancellation can be a great opportunity to win a customer back. Some companies make it very difficult to cancel, hitting customers with fees, which damages their reputation. Instead, you could turn it around by understanding why the customer is canceling and offering solutions, such as a discount for a longer commitment. Even though we talk about automation and digitization, the human element is crucial. You need to incorporate this within your online persona. (28:03) A really happy customer could easily become your best advocate if you address their issues with a positive and caring perspective. Listening to the customer and resolving their issue can make them a top promoter for your company. We’ve seen this with Malcolm. In the early days, we had people email in saying something didn’t work or was a bug. Sometimes it was a bug, but other times it was a misunderstanding. By thanking them for their feedback and asking for their opinion, some of these people have become our biggest advocates. (29:10) Many companies don’t want to hear bad news, but creating a welcoming atmosphere for feedback allows you to discover problems with your product or experience and improve your business. If you foster a feedback-friendly environment, you’ll gain valuable intelligence and insights directly from your customers. (30:01) For example, with Malcolm, we have a simple feature that allows users to give feedback on any content or user journey. This feedback is visible only to our team. It’s amazing how often customers point out missed details or offer great ideas. Even the most meticulous clients provide useful insights, which helps us continuously improve. (31:14) It’s crucial to stay connected with your customers. CEOs who engage directly with customers, like serving at a drive-through, get to see firsthand how their brand is experienced. This helps avoid becoming disconnected from the actual customer experience by just focusing on spreadsheets and reports. (32:00) One of the most annoying things I personally find is when, after navigating through a chatbot, voice menu, and a long hold time, you’re told that the department handling your issue is different. It’s an example of an inward-looking company making their processes the customer’s problem, despite claiming to be customer-centric. (32:56) For SMBs and startups, there’s an opportunity to differentiate yourself by being empathetic and helpful. You can compete with larger companies simply by putting yourself in the customer’s shoes and being more helpful than they are. Small companies can make a big impact with this strategy alone. (33:18) Even startups answering questions directly or involving founders in customer interactions can create a strong reputation for caring about customers. This is especially valuable during the early stages when trying to achieve product-market fit. Building a reputation as a company that genuinely cares about its customers is crucial. (33:40) We’re approaching the end here, but we’d love to know what’s next for Malcolm and why people should check it out in the SaaS Marketplace. With Malcolm, we’re genuinely focused on customer service, drawing from our extensive experience in building systems and listening to customers. We have new features and incremental improvements coming, such as appointment booking and stock products. We try to stay focused on what we know works, based on our experience with large companies, while paying close attention to detail in Malcolm. We hope that this comes through in the product and that users find the features helpful. (35:20) We’re not a VC-funded company aiming for short-term gains. We’ve been in this field for 20 years and are passionate about customer service. We hope this passion is evident in our product. (35:45) Your passion for the subject is clear, and your branding reflects that well. It tells us you understand marketing, and the branding—featuring a cheeky monkey named Malcolm—adds a human touch. We aim to stand out by not appearing like just another boring tech company. We want to position ourselves as more connected to our customers’ world, understanding that many are entrepreneurs or busy professionals. Our goal is to help them improve their customer service without getting bogged down in tech jargon. (37:16) The key to customer success is understanding that not everyone is as tech-savvy as you are. Design an experience that addresses all types of customers, not just the proficient ones. Even if our product is complex, we’re here to help set things up and ensure a positive experience. Once you’ve sold a product, the work has just begun. You need to handhold, educate, and provide a great experience continuously. (38:03) Our goal is to help you create a digital version of yourself that retains the human touch, attention to detail, and caring aspect. We want to provide a great customer experience, whether it’s 3 a.m. or anytime else. Tom, once again, thank you so much for coming on today. Everyone should check out Malcolm in the B2B SaaS Marketplace. Tom Jordan, it’s been a pleasure having you on. We could talk for hours about customer service. I appreciate you coming on, love your product, and love the branding. Highly recommend everyone check out Malcolm. (38:59) Likewise, thank you so much. Take care. Cheers. Bye.

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